# Manhattan Prosecutors file criminal charges for Trump re Stormy Daniels case - ongoing discussion here (Guilty on all 34 counts, May 30, 2024) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [March 9, 2023, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953 "2023-03-09T22:53:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 246
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4901 "2024-05-29T16:40:56Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > under the guise of a retainer for legal services to hide damaging information from voters during the 2016 presidential election This to me is the sticking point. I just don’t know if the jury is going to buy that this is election interference. I’m not even sure if I buy that it is election interference. It really feels like a stretch to say that the American people were defrauded to know this detail about Trump before the election. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4902 "2024-05-29T16:41:39Z")
On my first jury the judge said we could set any schedule we wanted and we would be accommodated. The second one we were told that our hours were 9:30 to 4:30. We could leave early or start late but just that time frame. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4903 "2024-05-29T16:44:38Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > This to me is the sticking point. I just don’t know if the jury is going to buy that this is election interference. I’m not even sure if I buy that it is election interference. It really feels like a stretch to say that the American people were defrauded to know this detail about Trump before the election. Here’s something I posed up thread that, IMO, ties a lot of that together. > [@Joey\_P](#): > > I really liked Seth Meyer’s take on this. > > Paraphrased ([cued up video](https://youtu.be/HNVQzppQu9s?t=264)): > > > Sean Hannity thinks prosecutors have an ulterior motive. That she was there for one reason, to embarrass Trump. Look, if you don’t want an adult film star testifying in a trial of a former president, don’t vote for a president who slept with an adult film star. And you might say “But I didn’t know he slept with an adult film star before I voted for him” and that’s because he paid her off so she wouldn’t tell anyone. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4904 "2024-05-29T16:51:16Z")
I get it, I’m just not convinced that the jury will get there. They may reach the conclusion that Trump didn’t want the story to come out, but is that electoral interference? Are the voters entitled to know everything about every candidate? This for me is where it falls down. If Comey had not made his statement about Clinton, would that have been electoral interference? He made his statements, and lot of people that that _was_ electoral interference. I want so badly for Trump to be found guilty but I think … well let’s just say I don’t think it is a trivial decision. I don’t think it is everybody sits down, they all vote guilty, and they’re back an hour later. ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4905 "2024-05-29T16:54:10Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > trump puts his favourite rants on stickies. the photographer got a good shot of it during the morning camera shoot. I assume he wants photos of his sticky taken and then talked about. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4906 "2024-05-29T16:57:31Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > they did try the family man argument in opening and closing. it may have been more effective in closing as his kids were behind him. I would have wondered why his wife did not show up at all. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4907 "2024-05-29T17:02:44Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > I forgot one of the biggest topics of discussion today: “Why does the defense go first on closing summations, and the prosecution go last? Is that appealable? Did Biden make Merchan do it that way? > [@Spoons](#): > > To them, it’s all political: Biden is pulling Merchan’s strings, so that Merchan’s daughter gets $93 million for Democrats, and Biden wins the election. Oh and hey, Biden was at the trial today, which the mainstream media won’t tell you It really is all conspiracy theories with them. And a complete distrust in American institutions and the rule of law. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4908 "2024-05-29T17:02:59Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > if his defense team was sedating him. C’mon, don’t be absurd! They gave him a frontal lobotomy and covered the scar with the usual amount of orange makeup. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4909 "2024-05-29T17:03:33Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I would have wondered why his wife did not show up at all So random thought. What happens if a juror says something like this as a reason the fraud wasn’t about keeping it secret from his family? Is that verboten? (The prosecutor would not have been allowed to even allude to that) Or just a logical argument like any other the juror could make during deliberations. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4910 "2024-05-29T17:07:00Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I would have wondered why his wife did not show up at all. I don’t think that could be considered relevant. I doubt that the two have a lot of love, she digs his gold and he just liked having arm candy. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4911 "2024-05-29T17:09:54Z")
you couldn’t use his wife not being there as a factor. you can use what witnesses said about their marriage as a factor. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4912 "2024-05-29T17:12:28Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > Prosecutors allege the underlying crime was trying to illegally influence the 2016 presidential election. I can’t understand why the underlying crime wasn’t something along the lines of “_misreporting [concealing] an in-kind campaign contribution_” ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4913 "2024-05-29T17:14:01Z")
that was just one of the underlying crimes. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4914 "2024-05-29T17:16:41Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > They may reach the conclusion that Trump didn’t want the story to come out, but is that electoral interference? Are the voters entitled to know everything about every candidate? Everything? No. But they’re entitled to know things that may change their minds about voting for a candidate. > [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > If Comey had not made his statement about Clinton, would that have been electoral interference? He made the statement precisely to **avoid** the perception of electoral interference – “here is information that is sufficiently important that it may change some voters’ minds about their support for a candidate, and I don’t want to be in the position of suppressing it”. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > > > I would have wondered why his wife did not show up at all. > > I don’t think that could be considered relevant. I doubt that the two have a lot of love, she digs his gold and he just liked having arm candy. I think it’s relevant in that Trump claimed he paid off Daniels in order to protect Melania. If the two don’t care about each other – and I’m sure they don’t – then why **did** this notoriously stingy orange fuck pay the hush money? The prosecution says that after the Access Hollywood scandal, it was because he felt it would sink his election chances. I believe them. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4915 "2024-05-29T17:16:50Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > So random thought. What happens if a juror says something like this as a reason the fraud wasn’t about keeping it secret from his family? Is that verboten? (The prosecutor would not have been allowed to even allude to that) Or just a logical argument like any other the juror could make during deliberations. A juror can do whatever the hell they want. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4916 "2024-05-29T17:16:58Z")
I believe you meant Seth Meyers? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4917 "2024-05-29T17:20:26Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > They may reach the conclusion that Trump didn’t want the story to come out, but is that electoral interference? If he didn’t want it to come out because he was worried it would hurt his chances for election then of course it was. And there was a large amount of evidence showing that to be the motive. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4918 "2024-05-29T17:24:06Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > I just don’t know if the jury is going to buy that this is election interference. I’m not even sure if I buy that it is election interference. It really feels like a stretch to say that the American people were defrauded to know this detail about Trump before the election. The jury isn’t being asked to determine whether it’s election interference. They’re being asked to determine whether Trump structured multiple payments as “legal fees” in order to avoid scrutiny. Basically, did _Donald Trump_ think that he was doing it as part of campaigning? But note that the question is not, “Was it reasonable for Trump to think that this was a campaign expense?” Nor is it, “Was it reasonable for Trump to think that the information would affect his odds of winning the campaign?” If a guy comes into a store with a banana and threatens to murder everyone with it, his state of mind is that of a murderer. That his belief in the lethality of bananas is ridiculous doesn’t have any bearing on his **intent**. His intent was to go in there and murder a bunch of people, and we’re all just lucky that he’s a nutball. But, likewise, he’s a nutball who could have murdered a bunch of people if he had gotten his hands on something more dangerous. It’s okay for Trump’s beliefs to be ridiculous. We’re not asked to evaluate whether the decisions he made, made sense in the real world - knowing what we know today, in 2024, about the average Trump voter and how much they care about the morality of his activities. We’re only asked whether he thought that he was paying Cohen for legal advice _or_ if he was channeling money through his lawyer, to Stormy Daniels, and marked it down as a legal expense when - in reality - it was a hush money payment. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4919 "2024-05-29T17:25:03Z")
per msnbc verdict watch: lunch has arrived for the jury. no further details. hopefully they did not order smelly stuff. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4920 "2024-05-29T17:27:32Z")
We’ve reached the point I have been anticipating. The jury eats lunch because hey, free food and then comes back out to say guilty as shit on all counts. I don’t think this will actually happen but I will remain hopeful. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953.md?page=245) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953.md?page=247)