# Manhattan Prosecutors file criminal charges for Trump re Stormy Daniels case - ongoing discussion here (Guilty on all 34 counts, May 30, 2024) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [March 9, 2023, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953 "2023-03-09T22:53:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 253
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5041 "2024-05-29T22:47:08Z")
Huh. They did the chamber thing in the newer buildings. The old ones had a small room off the courtroom, chambers were elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5042 "2024-05-29T23:19:19Z")
Yeah - I’ve never encountered/heard of a “robing room” in the several state and federal courtrooms I’ve been familiar with. They might exist, but I never noticed one. Sounds like the NY courthouse is set up with the judge’s chambers on a different floor from the courtroom. And I have no idea how they assign/share courtrooms. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5043 "2024-05-29T23:20:04Z")
I’ve decided that Steinglass, et al, avoided _any mention of a predicate crime whatsoever_ (is that right?) until the closing for an absolutely brilliant reason. We all know there was no need to charge a predicate crime in order to be convicted of Felony Falsification of Business Records. In fact, _**[The People of the State of New York v. Jason Holley](https://casetext.com/case/people-v-holley-148)**_ tells us that a Defendant could be _acquitted of_ the predicate crime _and still be found guilty_ of the Felony Falsification charge. Naming the specific predicate charge, IMHO, was a very risky move. It may have had the jury trying to figure out guilt/innocence _of the predicate crime_ in a way that not only didn’t matter, legally, but was also a whole lot messier than maintaining focus on the business records. The idea of naming the predicate crime at the end seemed almost perfunctory, but elegant in its simplicity. It’s something that has driven the MAGAs _bonkers_ from pretty much day one of these charges and this trial. Steinglass simultaneously shut them down (a positive side effect) _and_ left the jury with the _answer to_ what could have been a nagging question: what crime was he intending to commit or cover up?? [Has everybody else already figured this out, and I’m just late to the party?? ;-)] ETA: the “Access Hollywood” tape was really just robing room talk. Ahem. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5044 "2024-05-29T23:55:21Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > These days, sure, they could give them each a laptop The problem with that notion is that you are talking about 12 laptops that could be on 12 different pages. The more sensible approach would be to have a 55inch monitor on the wall and a keyboard and mouse on the conference table, with a dedicated computer that is unconnected to anything but the buzzer in the courtroom. One SD card would contain all the evidence (except for physical objects) and transcripts from the trial for the jury to review. My point here is that you do not want the jury to be on 12 different pages at the same time, you want a unified discussion. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5045 "2024-05-29T23:56:25Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > Isn’t this what the defense team is for?? "I can’t find a decent lawyer! They’re _all_ corrupt and inept. Just look a look at Cohen! Ten years he worked for me then testifies against me! What kind of _good_ lawyer does that. Then there’s ‘Horseface’ Habba. Filed a case against the _New York Times_, the world’s most corrupt, newspaper and my ungrateful niece and couldn’t bring it home! And _then_ cost me $83-million when that Carol girl got all upset. Witch ought to pay _me_ 83-million for paying attention to her. I tell ya, I just don’t have any luck in finding a good lawyer. Except that – what’s her name? – Cannon down in Florida. She’s doing what I pay her for." ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5046 "2024-05-29T23:59:10Z")
They consider the entire US judicial system to be illegitimate, so a guilty verdict will be accepted right after they accept the result of the 2016 election. Personally, I’d like him found guilty here whether he is or not. There’s too great a chance he’ll walk on everything else. Nobody should ever give this asshole the benefit of the doubt. EVER. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2024, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5047 "2024-05-30T00:25:28Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > They consider the entire US judicial system to be illegitimate, so a guilty verdict will be accepted right after they accept the result of the 2016 election. So, immediately? ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2024, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5048 "2024-05-30T00:38:31Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > So, immediately No, because despite the typo, Trump still insists he should gave gotten even more votes in 2016. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2024, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5049 "2024-05-30T00:46:41Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Trump still insists he should gave gotten even more votes in 2016. Yes, he even supposedly opened an investigation into how he lost the popular vote, he insisted it was due to illegal migrants voting and other such nonsense. That investigation of course found nothing and was soon forgotten. And today he faces a probable felony conviction related to election interference in that same election. ![](https://media1.tenor.com/m/bmL21Em6rzsAAAAC/ha-ha-point.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2024, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5050 "2024-05-30T01:02:37Z")
2020 dumbass 😜 ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2024, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5051 "2024-05-30T01:12:38Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > The prosecution didn’t call certain witnesses, because they would have given Trump a win. If we worked on the assumption that these witnesses’ identities were unknown to the defendant and they weren’t disclosed during discovery, and, if the government knew these witnesses could provide exculpatory testimony, would that violate the Brady rule? ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2024, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5052 "2024-05-30T01:18:18Z")
I have no idea. I don’t think there were any witnesses, except perhaps ones that Trump had made up during today’s proceedings. He’s never mentioned any witnesses before. He was sounding kind of unhinged in today’s Daily Rant. Well, he always does, but a little more than usual. Like I said before, I think reality is starting to sink in and he’s scared. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2024, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5053 "2024-05-30T01:23:56Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > If all of this money-shuffling ended up in a campaign contribution, then is that, while illegal, election interference? This is an important input: [Trump Business Records Jury Instructions](https://www.nycourts.gov/LegacyPDFS/press/PDFs/People%20v.%20DJT%20Jury%20Instructions%20and%20Charges%20FINAL%205-23-24.pdf) The instructions do not actually mention election interference. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2024, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5054 "2024-05-30T01:27:46Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > But if the jury is deliberating, everyone has to stay? Yes, because the jury could reach a verdict at any moment, so the accused must be in the courtroom with his lawyers, and the prosecution counsel, and the judge. (That’s especially important if the accused habitually has a large motorcade of 5 SUVS; can’t make the jury wait while his security teams get him back to the court house from ~~Barad-dûr~~ his tower.) Waiting for a jury verdict is one of the tensest things going. I remember going to the court once with a couple of others just to keep company with the Crown prosecutor who was waiting for a decision. We played Trivial Pursuit in the barristers’ robing room / lounge. Crown was wearing her court robes. At one point, defence counsel wandered in to check on her, he was wearing his robes as well. They both had to be ready to be in court on a moment’s notice. Jury gave its decision around 9 pm. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2024, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5055 "2024-05-30T01:32:19Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Maybe this? (Old Monty Python judges sketch) [https://youtu.be/nVt1EY896cY?si=UFVzmjk7enadIf7T](https://youtu.be/nVt1EY896cY?si=UFVzmjk7enadIf7T) That’s what it made me think of, too. The chef’s kiss of that sketch is the nonchalantness with which they talk about “banging their gavels”. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2024, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5056 "2024-05-30T01:55:27Z")
Robing rooms a bit fancier due to wigs, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2024, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5057 "2024-05-30T01:58:44Z")
naw, we don’t have wigs. (And British judges don’t use gavels. I think the Pythons put that line in for the American tour.) ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2024, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5058 "2024-05-30T01:59:31Z")
Crazy, huh? Just like the way “collusion” isn’t a specific crime. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2024, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5059 "2024-05-30T02:01:11Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > This is an important input: > > [Trump Business Records Jury Instructions](https://www.nycourts.gov/LegacyPDFS/press/PDFs/People%20v.%20DJT%20Jury%20Instructions%20and%20Charges%20FINAL%205-23-24.pdf) > > The instructions do not actually mention election interference. Thanks for that. I’m nowhere near finished reading it (it really is 55 pages, just like the news said), but I like the way it’s in plain language, easily understandable to the layperson. I’d expect that, and I’m glad to see it. Thanks again! ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2024, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5060 "2024-05-30T02:20:46Z")
I wrote before that the jury instructions do not mention “election interference.” Literally, that’s true. But looking at it again, this part of the instructions effectively has the same meaning: > [@](#): > > The People allege that the other crime the defendant intended to commit, aid, or conceal is a violation of New York Election Law section 17-152. > > Section 17-152 of the New York Election Law provides that any two or more persons who conspire to promote or prevent the election of any person to a public office by unlawful means and which conspiracy is acted upon by one or more of the parties thereto, shall be guilty of conspiracy to promote or prevent an election. Under our law, a person is guilty of such a conspiracy when, with intent that conduct be performed that would promote or prevent the election of a person to public office by unlawful means, he or she agrees with one or more persons to engage in or cause the performance of such conduct. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953.md?page=252) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953.md?page=254)