# Manhattan Prosecutors file criminal charges for Trump re Stormy Daniels case - ongoing discussion here (Guilty on all 34 counts, May 30, 2024) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [March 9, 2023, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953 "2023-03-09T22:53:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 279
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5561 "2024-05-31T13:49:11Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > from cnn: > > Trump is a Florida resident. When it comes to the Manhattan guilty verdict just rendered, [Trump’s right to vote in Florida](https://campaignlegal.org/update/millions-have-lost-their-right-vote-could-trump-join-them) in November’s election will depend on whether he is sentenced to a term in prison and if he has finished serving that prison sentence by the time of the election. Hmm. I’m far from expert, and apologies for not researching in depth before posting this, but my understanding was that felon voting in FL was not restricted to incarceration in prison. I thought it was “completion of sentence and probation.” ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5562 "2024-05-31T14:10:22Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > I have a big problem with this. No, the people will not decide on Nov 5. The people of NY have already decided that, in the State of New York, Trump is a felon. Criming is not a popularity contest. The rule of law exists for a reason, to allow the people to take care of things that must be done but may not be popular. > > Trump has been trying to make this a popularity contest and have it tried in the court of public opinion, where he can lie without consequence, as well as threaten and coerce others to get his way. The law is how the people take care of that. It’s not perfect, but better than the alternative. [![](https://i.imgur.com/dsZdqVC.jpeg) ](https://i.imgur.com/dsZdqVC.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5563 "2024-05-31T14:17:49Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Blanche: we couldn’t use “advice of counsel” defense so we were screwed. Just to remind everyone, Trump’s lawyers explicitly told the judge they were _not_ going to rely on the advice of counsel defense. (doing so involves waiving attorney client privilege). When they later tried it, having failed to waive the privilege, the judge properly shut them down. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5564 "2024-05-31T14:21:01Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > … (The biggest concern would probably be SCotUS suddenly deciding to take up the immunity question and ruling that this would be covered by it because he was President at the time – but then, Joe would have immunity and could rendition him with impunity.) But he wasn’t President when the crime was committed (which was kind of the point of the prosecution). Not that it will matter to his SCotUS stooges. I’m reasonably certain that Alito and/or Thomas can come up with some rationale, the logic of which would be tortured to the point that the Spanish Inquisition would turn green with envy, ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5565 "2024-05-31T14:28:09Z")
> [@OttoDaFe](#): > > I’m reasonably certain that Alito and/or Thomas can come up with some rationale, the logic of which would be tortured to the point that the Spanish Inquisition would turn green with envy, Having been elected (as willed by God and his representatives on Earth, the Republican Party), he was washed of all his sins, retroactively gaining immunity for all his past transgressions. He shall go forth and sin no more, for if the president does it, it’s not a sin. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5566 "2024-05-31T14:32:41Z")
> [@OttoDaFe](#): > > But he wasn’t President when the crime was committed No, you are mistaken. He was not convicted of election fraud. He was convicted of business fraud. It was not a felony except for the fact of the cover-up. He was in the White House at the time of the fraud for which he was convicted, and therefore would be covered by blanket executive immunity. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5567 "2024-05-31T14:33:07Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Legal guy: It’s all about the underlying crimes that elevate the misdemeanors to felonies. Merchan’s instruction didn’t specify what those crimes were and let the jury choose among 3 possibilities. Therefore, it may not have been 12-0 unanimous; it could’ve been 4 jurors thought it was felony #1, 4 felony #2, 4 felony #3…therefore, the verdict wasn’t unanimous and will be overturned on appeal. Okay, legal eagles, is this in fact likely to be overturned on appeal? Because they could choose among three scenarios and only had to be unanimous on the choice, not on which scenario they chose? ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5568 "2024-05-31T14:36:25Z")
Their legal guy is pretty stupid. Merchan said that they needn’t agree on the underlying crime, but they did need to be unanimous that an underlying crime occurred. Why did Merchan give such a crazy instruction? Because that’s what the law says. In fact, when the defense proposed that the jury instructions include the need for unanimity in deciding on the associated crime, Merchan shut that down immediately. The law says what it says, was His Honor’s position, and we will not be making new law here. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5569 "2024-05-31T14:37:06Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Bloviator: Biden conspiracy #2 – the case was resurrected a mere 2 months after Trump declared his candidacy. Coincidence??? (Responding to “Bloviator”, not **jsc1953** ) No, because Trump intentionally declared his candidacy earlier than normal, _precisely_ because he knew there were indictments coming down and he could claim election interference if he was already a candidate. But anyone with half a brain already knows that. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5570 "2024-05-31T14:41:06Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Legal guy: It’s all about the underlying crimes that elevate the misdemeanors to felonies. Merchan’s instruction didn’t specify what those crimes were and let the jury choose among 3 possibilities. Therefore, it may not have been 12-0 unanimous; it could’ve been 4 jurors thought it was felony #1, 4 felony #2, 4 felony #3…therefore, the verdict wasn’t unanimous and will be overturned on appeal. Pardon me for being ignorant, but what were these three possibilities? ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5571 "2024-05-31T14:41:46Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > In fact, when the defense proposed that the jury instructions include the need for unanimity in deciding on the associated crime, Merchan shut that down immediately. The law says what it says, was His Honor’s position, and we will not be making new law here. FWIW, Hugh Hewitt was on NPR this morning, making the same “lack of unanimity” case. You’ve got to hand it to the Right Wing … they get their talking points straight. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5572 "2024-05-31T14:46:03Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > You’ve got to hand it to the Right Wing … they get their talking points straight. Yeah, straight from outta their asses. 🤨 ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5573 "2024-05-31T15:10:12Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > I slept well I wonder if Trump did. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5574 "2024-05-31T15:15:41Z")
Trump’s on TV right now. The first few minutes of his “press conference” is just a slightly longer version of his daily whine. Having gotten through that, he’s now expounding on particular grievances one by one. The CNN crew noted that shortly before Trump came out, his team removed the teleprompter that had been set up for him. So even his own people don’t know what the next thing to come out of his mouth will be. ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5575 "2024-05-31T15:17:26Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > Trump’s on TV right now. I’m glad others are willing to look at his face and report back to those of us who really don’t want to. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5576 "2024-05-31T15:18:50Z")
> Judge Juan Merchan explains that the jury must determine whether Trump conspired to promote a person to or prevent a person from public office by unlawful means. They must be unanimous on that fact but not on the unlawful means. Merchan explains the prosecution has three theories of those unlawful means: > > - Violations of the Federal Election Campaign Act, otherwise known as FECA > - Falsification of other business records > - Violations of tax laws > **[First day of jury deliberations in Trump New York hush money trial](https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-hush-money-trial-05-29-24/h_f8a83c535247dc463ab86f742a860c9e)** > > The jury in Donald Trump's criminal hush money trial has been dismissed for the day after deliberating for more than four hours on Wednesday. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5577 "2024-05-31T15:18:57Z")
I’m watching with captions on and sound off. I can’t listen to that awful whiny voice. But it’s just word salad, as usual. I hope lots of people are watching. He’s just deranged, and it shows when he’s doing these rants. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5578 "2024-05-31T15:19:57Z")
sorry, i have it on mute. i just see a lot of hand accordion. for the brief moment it took me to mute, he was saying salacious and never happened. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5579 "2024-05-31T15:21:41Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > i just see a lot of hand accordion. I always hear concertina music whenever he does that. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5580 "2024-05-31T15:22:51Z")
for me it is more of a wheezy ehhhh sound. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953.md?page=278) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953.md?page=280)