# Manhattan Prosecutors file criminal charges for Trump re Stormy Daniels case - ongoing discussion here (Guilty on all 34 counts, May 30, 2024) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [March 9, 2023, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953 "2023-03-09T22:53:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 292
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2024, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5821 "2024-06-04T21:45:10Z")
I finally got to speak to my boss about the trial. Of course, he thinks the whole thing is a giant conspiracy. The timing is on purpose to interfere with the election. These kind of charges are almost never charged. They could have just charged the whole thing as one charge. They could have left these all as misdemeanors. The timing of the sentencing is suspect. Trump wasn’t allowed to call his witness list to testify. No way to get a fair jury in New York. I may have forgotten one or two others, but I’m tired now. We really do like each other, which is good because I’m never changing his mind nor he mine. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2024, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5822 "2024-06-04T21:48:47Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > In the jury deliberations I’ve been in on, even when we were reasonably sure, we still went through each and every charge, step by step, to make sure we were dead certain. I came to say the same thing. The first jury I was on was slightly complicated (nothing compared to the one we are discussing) and we wanted to be methodical. We took a couple of days. ---
**Author:** ![dougrb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@dougrb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougrb)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2024, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5823 "2024-06-04T21:52:58Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > There was some element of the crime that was still debatable, to them. That’s why they asked for very specific testimony. Some got it the first time around and then said “Remember THIS?” “OH YEAH he’s guilty” ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2024, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5824 "2024-06-04T21:56:46Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > I’m never changing his mind nor he mine. So, if he was able to demonstrate that the points that you rested your opinion on were false and that a pure look at the evidence would lead you to conclude the opposite as you do currently, you would not follow the evidence? ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2024, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5825 "2024-06-04T21:59:33Z")
If he could do that, I would need to rethink my whole life. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2024, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5826 "2024-06-04T22:00:50Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > The timing is on purpose to interfere with the election. It might be worth pointing out to him that if Trump wanted a speedy trial, all he had to do was decline to waive time and the case would need to be tried within 60 days (or whatever the statutory time frame is in that jurisdiction). The timing of the trial is always and entirely up to the defendant. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2024, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5827 "2024-06-04T22:08:20Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > Trump wasn’t allowed to call his witness list to testify. Did you correct him on this? I’d love to hear his answer. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2024, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5828 "2024-06-04T22:13:45Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > > [@Chronos](#): > > > > They spent two days deliberating it, which implies that at least some jurors weren’t ready to vote “guilty” right away. There was some element of the crime that was still debatable, to them. > > In the jury deliberations I’ve been in on, even when we were reasonably sure, we still went through each and every charge, step by step, to make sure we were dead certain. I think you’re right, but “dead certain” feels too strict. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2024, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5829 "2024-06-04T22:15:36Z")
This springs from the whole thing where the defense were not allowed to call to the stand experts intended to interpret the law which, as Judge Mechan said, was _his_ job. They’ve extrapolated it to “They didn’t allow any witnesses!”. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2024, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5830 "2024-06-04T22:17:53Z")
What about blaming the prosecutors for not calling witnesses that would have proven he was innocent? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2024, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5831 "2024-06-04T22:26:31Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I think you’re right, but “dead certain” feels too strict. In all seriousness, there is probably a degree of separation between “dead certain” and “beyond a reasonable doubt”. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2024, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5832 "2024-06-04T22:29:21Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > If he could do that, I would need to rethink my whole life. So challenge him. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2024, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5833 "2024-06-04T22:30:15Z")
Trump’s lawyer wanted to call a former FEC official to instruct the jury on election law. That is the sole purview of the judge, who correctly disallowed it. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2024, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5834 "2024-06-04T22:34:27Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I think you’re right, but “dead certain” feels too strict. Yeah, usually, but in the case I had in mind, it was indeed dead certain. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2024, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5835 "2024-06-04T22:41:36Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > It might be worth pointing out to him … Oh, you and your _facts_! Man doesn’t need facts when he has _feelings_! ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2024, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5836 "2024-06-04T22:43:03Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > They’ve extrapolated it to “They didn’t allow any witnesses!”. This is like when Trump was forbidden to attack witnesses or the jury members in public tweets, this was extrapolated to “Trump was not allowed to testify!” ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2024, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5837 "2024-06-04T22:53:58Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > This is like when Trump was forbidden to attack witnesses or the jury members in public tweets, this was extrapolated to “Trump was not allowed to testify!” Trump literally said it though. > **[Fact check: Trump falsely claims he’s not allowed to testify at hush money...](https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/02/politics/fact-check-trump-testify-hush-money-trial/index.html)** > > Former President Donald Trump falsely claimed Thursday that he is not allowed to testify in his own defense at a criminal trial in Manhattan over his alleged falsification of business records. So when you say it was extrapolated, just remember Trump did all the extra polatin’. Note that **Judge Merchan himself** made sure in court to fact-check that claim. > **[Merchan fact-checks Trump’s claim that he’s ‘not allowed to testify’ while...](https://www.msnbc.com/top-stories/latest/trump-testify-gag-order-merchan-hush-money-trial-rcna150613)** > > Trump has made conflicting statements about whether he will take the stand in his hush money trial, which would require him to answer questions under oath. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2024, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5838 "2024-06-04T23:42:18Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > > [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > > > Trump wasn’t allowed to call his witness list to testify. > > Did you correct him on this? I’d love to hear his answer. I tried, but he couldn’t provide any names to dispute. He just said ‘you know, that guy, the one who is the top legal scholar who wanted to talk about how no law was broken’. I asked if he meant Dershowitz, but he didn’t know any names. He can be a bit slippery when it suits him. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2024, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5839 "2024-06-04T23:46:32Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > … Oh, you and your _facts_! Man doesn’t need facts when he has _feelings_! I know. How _rude_ of me! ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2024, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5840 "2024-06-04T23:50:03Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > I tried, but he couldn’t provide any names to dispute. He just said ‘you know, that guy, the one who is the top legal scholar who wanted to talk about how no law was broken’. I asked if he meant Dershowitz, but he didn’t know any names. He can be a bit slippery when it suits him. Pretty much every day after court, when Trump spoke to the media, he would mention “a lot of legal scholars say this case should never have been brought.” He never specified names, or if he did, I didn’t catch them. He did specify names of opinion columnists, but I don’t remember names of legal scholars. Maybe he’s doing what Trump has demonstrated: mention legal scholars, but never specify them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953.md?page=291) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953.md?page=293)