# Manhattan Prosecutors file criminal charges for Trump re Stormy Daniels case - ongoing discussion here (Guilty on all 34 counts, May 30, 2024) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [March 9, 2023, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953 "2023-03-09T22:53:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 296
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2024, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5901 "2024-06-09T02:16:23Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > how would it go from there? The same way it went with all the other requests for a mistrial: the legalese equivalent of “no f\*ck off” ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2024, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5902 "2024-06-09T02:19:13Z")
So your opinion is that if Team Trump, on the record, writes to Merchan, “We believe that we have identified the person who posted this, and we want to assess whether we have cause for a mistrial.” That Merchan would refuse to consider it? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2024, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5903 "2024-06-09T02:34:57Z")
My guess is that Merchan would wan a lot more than “we think we know who it is.” They’d have to provide details, and also details why they think he has some relationship to a juror. Otherwise, this could come up anytime anyone posts trashtalk about the trial on the court webpage. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2024, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5904 "2024-06-09T02:35:18Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > “We believe that we have identified the person who posted this, and we want to assess whether we have cause for a mistrial.” Based on the above? Absolutely. Now if they actually wrote a proper request: 1. We have identified the person who wrote it - Posty McPosterton. 1a. A fact which supports above. 1b. Further fact which supports above. 1c. etc. 2. Mr. McPosterton is, in fact, a cousin of Juror #7, Render Verdictus. 2a. Proof of such… 3. There is reasonable cause to suspect that Ms. Verdictus did communicate with Mr. McPosterton during the course of the trial. 3a. Fact or reasonable supposition that supports above. 3b. etc. 4. There is reasonable cause to believe that those communications may have involved the course of the trial and the discussions of the jury and would thus constitute juror misconduct on the part of Ms. Verdictus. 4a. Fact or reasonable supposition that supports above. 4b. Quote of relevant statute or case law. 4c. etc. 5. Juror misconduct would present reasonable grounds for a mistrial. 5a. Quote of relevant statute or case law. 5b. etc. Therefore, we respectfully request a full investigation into all communications between Mr. McPosterton and Ms. Verdictus to determine what, if any, misconduct may have occurred. He (Merchan) would probably consider it and most likely order said investigation - including subpoenas were necessary - and hold sentencing pending the outcome of that investigation. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2024, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5905 "2024-06-09T02:45:40Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > So your opinion is that if Team Trump, on the record, writes to Merchan, “We believe that we have identified the person who posted this, and we want to assess whether we have cause for a mistrial.” That Merchan would refuse to consider it? I mean presumably there is a legal standard as to what (pretty low) bar the defense needs to reach in order for Merchan to hear their claim for a mistrial (and then tell them no f\*ck off). And the Trump team have been abusing that low bar throughout the trail (without delaying the trial a second) But yeah IMO unless they can show more evidence than is in the public domain (all of which indicates this is random Internet troll with no connection to the jury or the trial) they should be given short shift. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2024, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5906 "2024-06-09T02:52:22Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > So your opinion is that if Team Trump, on the record, writes to Merchan, “We believe that we have identified the person who posted this, and we want to assess whether we have cause for a mistrial.” That Merchan would refuse to consider it? In American courts, the judges do not conduct investigations. If they want to assess whether they have cause for a mistrial, they are free to do so. They don’t need to advise the judge, and they don’t need his approval. If they indeed discover that they have cause for a mistrial, they can bring that to the judge, in the form of a motion. But it’s on them to bring the evidence and advance the legal arguments that show that they should prevail. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2024, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5907 "2024-06-09T02:55:04Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Now if they actually wrote a proper request: You’ve got to be as careful with this as the showrunners on Breaking Bad were with depictions of the meth-making process. A Trump lawyer could wander in here and cut and paste that word for word. The judge will not give it the time of day, finding “Quote of relevant statute or case law” to be a less than compelling argument but Trump’s followers will take it as gospel proof of Trump’s innocence. Pretty soon, the nationwide manhunt for Render Verdictus could be on. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2024, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5908 "2024-06-09T03:04:12Z")
Weaponized jurisprudence. Poor Render. She won’t stand a chance. Poster McPosterton has already booked his flight to Thailand. FWIW, I am not a lawyer, but I have occasion, in my job, to read a lot of legal motions, administrative case filings, and final decisions so you pick up on the forms and conventions. I obviously left a lot out (especially the endless footnotes) since I’m not actually getting paid for this - more’s the pity. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2024, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5909 "2024-06-09T03:04:33Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > If they indeed discover that they have cause for a mistrial, they can bring that to the judge, in the form of a motion. > > But it’s on them to bring the evidence and advance the legal arguments that show that they should prevail. What if there’s insufficient public information available for them to identify someone? I’d assume that if the statement had been, “My cousin, who’s on the jury, got a bag full of cash and a letter to vote for the prosecution.” Then that’s implicating a crime and, if not the judge who oversaw the trial, that _some_ judge would be able to get a warrant against the website to look up the IP address and posting history of the individual. But my understanding is that pre-judging the outcome of a case, without listening to the evidence, is just cause for a mistrial. I don’t know that the faithless juror would be guilty of any crime? ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2024, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5910 "2024-06-09T03:12:14Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > if I post on X The Site Formerly Known As Twitter that I was the Zodiac Killer, the police are under no obligation or expectation to take me seriously But if you post that and suddenly find yourself (and your Twitter post) at the center of huge high profile online campaign that claims to have discovered the true identity of the Zodiac Killer you may find the FBI are interested. Even if they only get as far as looking up your true identity and seeing if you were alive and living in Northern California at the time of the Zodiac murders. That is I assume what will happen here (in fact probably has happened). Someone from the NYPD has looked up the real person associated with that Facebook account and attempted to work out of there is any chance they are actually a cousin of a juror > [@Smapti](#): > > should there be any expectation that I should be punished for using my Constitutional right to speech to make a statement that is clearly not intended to be taken as true NY (in common with other jurisdictions) has a “making false statements” law. Not that a prosecution Is all that likely. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2024, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5911 "2024-06-09T03:21:37Z")
It looks like the “false statements” law only applies to things written on legal documents that specifically note that it’s a crime to lie on. I do see this rather widely applicable law, however: [https://law.justia.com/codes/new-york/pen/part-3/title-l/article-195/195-05/](https://law.justia.com/codes/new-york/pen/part-3/title-l/article-195/195-05/) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2024, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5912 "2024-06-09T03:38:45Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Will there even be that? Assuming the facts are as it appears (this is a random troll who is not connected to either the jury or the trial) Why would there be any hearing? Yes, there will be a Sentencing hearing and an Appeals hearing. Unless the Appeals court just says "nope\> ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2024, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5913 "2024-06-09T03:49:16Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > NY (in common with other jurisdictions) has a “making false statements” law. They’ll have to arrest the entire Fox News primetime team before they get around to dealing with me. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2024, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5914 "2024-06-09T03:53:35Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > NY (in common with other jurisdictions) has a “making false statements” law. Not that a prosecution Is all that likely. Only in certain legal documents, etc. If I tell someone I cant go see that Horror film with them as i have a doctors appt- that is no crime. The 1st Ad covers reasonable lies. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2024, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5915 "2024-06-09T06:52:21Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Only in certain legal documents, etc. I wonder: could the definition of “legal document” be extended to include the official website of the government’s legal system ? Suppose this same troll had sent a written letter by registered mail to the court, claiming that he has evidence of jury misconduct. Couldn’t he be charged with something? (maybe criminal mischief, interference with legal procedures, contempt of court, etc ? ) At the very least, it seems like he could be sued for the expenses incurred by the police for investigating a false claim. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2024, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5916 "2024-06-09T07:22:20Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > I wonder: could the definition of “legal document” be extended to include the official website of the government’s legal system ? The comment was on a Facebook page. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2024, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5917 "2024-06-09T07:29:44Z")
But as we know from Rudy Giuliani’s sworn testimony on election fraud, “something somebody told me they saw on Facebook” now constitutes legal evidence. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2024, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5918 "2024-06-09T09:00:56Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The comment was on a Facebook page. I thought it was an official Facebook page owned by the NY court system. Am I wrong? (disclaimer: I have never used Facebook , and know absolutely zero about how facebook works. ) ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2024, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5919 "2024-06-09T09:21:31Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > I thought it was an official Facebook page owned by the NY court system. Nobody owns a Facebook page except the shareholders at Facebook. Presumably someone associated with the courts was given permission to represent them and engage with the public on a page devoted to it. It is not in any way government property. I work for the government and my agency has a Facebook page. I assume folks from the Communications department create content there, and they might work with some of our outreach and education folks. But it’s not the official site for my agency, we have a .gov site (which we direct people to from the Facebook page). ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2024, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/5920 "2024-06-09T11:38:13Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I assume folks from the Communications department create content there, and they might work with some of our outreach and education folks. It’s still a government website legally speaking. If someone hacked that Facebook page (which would probably include creating a Joe Biden account and posting something dumb on it) it would be “attacking government infrastructure” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953.md?page=295) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953.md?page=297)