# Manhattan Prosecutors file criminal charges for Trump re Stormy Daniels case - ongoing discussion here (Guilty on all 34 counts, May 30, 2024) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [March 9, 2023, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953 "2023-03-09T22:53:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 41
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/801 "2023-04-08T20:06:09Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > From what I understand, Stormy Daniels didn’t ask for ‘hush money’. What she did was sell her story to the press, in the expectation that it would be a front-page story. Her signature is on a non-disclosure agreement (which Trump never signed, and which never became enforceable) that included the $130,000 payment. It was clear that the agreement was to accept the money for silence. It’s an exhibit to this lawsuit: > **[stormysuit.pdf](https://www.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/stormysuit.pdf?mod=article_inline)** (Trump claims he had no involvement - Cohen did him a solid of his own accord. That’s why it’s important to have evidence from Cohen and/or Pecker that Trump knew about this plan). ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/802 "2023-04-08T20:15:19Z")
How I see it: Stormy went to National Enquirer to sell her story. NE, already having bought a previous Trump affair story, didn’t buy Stormys. NE sent her to Cohen. Then, Stormy told Trump/Cohen if they didn’t pay, she’d go to the press (for free). Cohen decided to pay for her story and entered into a settlement agreement (not an NDA, although that would have been the appropriate document). The Stormy blackmail aside, this is all on the up n up. It’s what happens next that gets criminal for Trump. **Election Related** : Trump likely paid Stormy to keep her quiet due to the election. If so, he needs to properly disclose it. He didn’t. That’s a federal crime. **Business Related** : Cohen paid Stormy. That’s fine. Trump Org paid Cohen back. That’s fine. Trump Org didn’t properly record the payback to Cohen. That’s falsifying business records - a NY misdemeanor crime. The improper recording was improper in several unique and different ways, so it’s several different charges. If done with intent to conceal another crime, this is a felony. This is the only crime Trump is charged with. **Tax Related** : The payback to Cohen was not properly disclosed to the NY tax authorities. That’s a NY state crime. All of these interplay to get 34 felony charges, but they don’t all hinge on each other. For example, The “Melania” defense (ie, paid Stormy so Melanie wouldn’t know, nothing to do with election) might knock out some of the business related charges that are tied to election crimes, but wouldn’t affect the (just) business or business tied to tax ones. Those standalone. This is for clarity, and sacrifices some accuracy. But Hope this helps. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/803 "2023-04-08T20:24:11Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > Stormy went to National Enquirer to sell her story. NE, already having bought a previous Trump affair story, didn’t buy Stormys. NE sent her to Cohen. > > Then, Stormy told Trump/Cohen if they didn’t pay, she’d go to the press (for free). Cohen decided to pay for her story and entered into a settlement agreement (not an NDA, although that would have been the appropriate document). > > The Stormy blackmail aside, this is all on the up n up. It’s what happens next that gets criminal for Trump. Is any of that, other than the NDA, true? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/804 "2023-04-08T20:27:01Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > > [@Moriarty](#): > > > > The parties claimed it as earned income for tax purposes; a business write off for Trump. > > And to make matters worse, after the arraignment last Tuesday, Trump’s doltish, thuggish attorney, Joe Tacopina, said on live tee vee, “He didn’t even take that write off on his tax return!” as if that was somehow exculpatory. > > Ehhhrrrmmmm, excuse me? > > If it was a bonafide tax write off, why _didn’t_ he take it? > > Oops. Tacopina was hired strictly as an attack dog, quite literally after Trump saw him on TV, which is the peak of Trump’s analytical capabilities. Todd Blanche was brought in as the actual legal brains of the outfit, supported in part by Susan Necheles. > [@Biffster](#): > > The problem is that there’s nothing new here. 34 charges is a lot of charges, but we’ve known about the Stormy Daniel’s affair for several years now already. There is not enough here to sustain interest. This expresses my view exactly. As I said before, my hope is that serious criminal charges for election interference, mishandling of classified documents, and obstruction of justice come raining down on Trump like a ton of bricks, and this case becomes pretty much the final nail in the coffin. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/805 "2023-04-08T20:27:39Z")
Yes. As true as a few sentences can summarize. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/806 "2023-04-08T20:32:34Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > I believe you’re conflating Daniels with [Karen McDougal](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_McDougal#Affair_with_Donald_Trump). Ignorance fought. I thought they were the same person, with Daniels = stage name, and McDougal = real name, but now I see they were separate people and separate incidents ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/807 "2023-04-08T20:33:46Z")
My understanding is that the National Enquirer passed on Stormy’s story, not because they had a similar one, but because Pecker caught wind of it and let Cohen know about it. I also don’t recall hearing anything about Stormy blackmailing Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/808 "2023-04-08T20:35:58Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > Stormy went to National Enquirer to sell her story. NE, already having bought a previous Trump affair story, didn’t buy Stormys. NE sent her to Cohen. There’s actually another (uncorroborated, as far as I can tell) theory that the lawyer for Stormy (and McDougal), a man named Keith Davidson, was working with Cohen and intentionally brought his clients into his orbit to negotiate these agreements. Basically, Davidson is a shady attorney who has made his living shaking down wealthy people to keep embarrassing stuff silent, and Cohen and him have been working together for more than a decade to reach such deals. > [@](#): > > …he defended himself against allegations leveled by his former clients that he didn’t look out for their best interests. McDougal even accused him in court documents of colluding with Trump’s associates while pretending to represent her… > > Davidson acknowledged reaching out to Cohen during the final stretch of the 2016 presidential campaign to let him know that he had just negotiated a deal with a powerful media company and McDougal that effectively kept her allegations of an affair with Trump out of public view. > > He did so even though neither Cohen nor Trump were official parties to the case. He deemed the call “a professional courtesy.” > > He denied that there was anything improper about the call. A few weeks after that call, Davidson said, Cohen called him saying he was hearing some rumblings that Daniels was trying to resurface allegations that she’d had sex with Trump in 2006. Cohen asked Davidson, who he knew had represented Daniels years earlier, to see if he could “find out what’s going on,” Davidson said. Soon after, Davidson brokered a deal with Cohen in which Daniels was paid $130,000 to keep quiet about her alleged tryst with Trump. > **[Lawyer who cut deals for Daniels and McDougal says the whole truth has not...](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/04/04/politics/stormy-daniels-karen-mcdougal-deals-keith-davidson-invs/index.html)** > > Exclusive: Stormy Daniels' former attorney says Trump's lawyer recently approached him and is urging him to "spill his guts." Both Stormy and McDougal later fired Davidson (although Stormy’s next lawyer, Michael Avenatti, was himself a crook who wanted to get into this extortion game), and McDougal has since successfully sued to unwind her own contract. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/809 "2023-04-08T20:39:13Z")
Lots of stories… not a lot of congruence… ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/810 "2023-04-08T20:43:38Z")
See above re McDougal. That’s the other one I was referring too. Blackmail is just threatening to make public embarrassing info about someone for money. That’s about what she did. **Moriarty** - Re: shady attorney. Yea, he’s shady. When I say “Stormy” I’m including her attorney for clarity. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/811 "2023-04-08T20:47:51Z")
For the record, Stormy Daniels’ legal name is “Stephanie Cliffords”. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/812 "2023-04-08T20:50:08Z")
Early on, I thought the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/813 "2023-04-08T20:58:55Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Lots of stories… not a lot of congruence I think it helps to start with the idea that Trump lives in a world where you can do whatever you want to people as long as you have somebody else come along and “take care” of them. Who knows how many non-disclosure/settlement agreements he’s reached over the years to avoid the embarrassment of being publicly outed for his conduct? (He’s certainly made mention of such contracts) Once the election got into full gear, it became even more important for Trump to silence these stories. As somebody who had a track record of such things, he just had to ramp up the intensity of his usual cohort of “fixers”. I can imagine him yelling into the phone “find all of them! I don’t want anything getting out!” So, his group of henchmen (who themselves likely only served their role because of how lucrative it was for them) began to gobble up whatever they could. And since it was a group of people (some - like Pecker - in the media, and others - like Cohen - having law licenses) who had experience with this sordid stuff, they were easily able to work together to “catch and kill” the stories. If one went to a lawyer, one of Trump’s “lawyers” would get wind of it and swoop in to “represent” them. And if one went to a media outlet, Trump’s “media” team would swoop in to provide them a “forum”. At that point, it’s just a matter of paying money in exchange for complicity. But, now you have a possible political scandal on your hands (in conventional times, can you imagine the fallout of a candidate having paid off a mistress?), so you have to be sure to obscure your actions. However, to do that, you have to set up fake companies with fake invoices, since you can’t just withdraw hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash without being asked what it was for. Thus, the effort to hide immoral behavior dovetails into criminal behavior. The lying is criminal, and the lying to influence the election (or, taking advantage of the lying by pretending it is real, and therefore a business write off) elevates the criminality to a felony. And here we are. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/814 "2023-04-08T21:29:58Z")
That’s a good summary, but may I remind everyone that the actual court documents lay out the entire scheme succinctly, including Trump’s informal agreement for Pecker to act as “the eyes and ears” of the campaign and to alert Trump to damaging stories, also to run damaging stories about Trump’s opponents. > **[84fba797-216a-490c-b75d-d77bca6d10f3.pdf](https://www.washingtonpost.com/documents/84fba797-216a-490c-b75d-d77bca6d10f3.pdf?itid=lk_inline_manual_1)** And I want to call attention to one detail, the reason AMI (American Media, the National Enquirer’s parent company) declined to pay for Woman 2’s (Stormy Daniels) story in the catch and kill scheme was that Trump was supposed to reimburse Pecker for the 150K they paid for McDougal’s story and he stiffed him. So Pecker declined to throw good money after bad and called in Cohen. ---
**Author:** ![dougrb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@dougrb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougrb)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/815 "2023-04-08T21:30:03Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > Stormy went to National Enquirer to sell her story. NE, already having bought a previous Trump affair story, didn’t buy Stormys. Pecker didn’t buy it because he was pissed that he hadn’t been reimbursed for the McDougal payment. According to Cohens testimony. [https://youtu.be/BKhtfu9i2J8?t=150](https://youtu.be/BKhtfu9i2J8?t=150) ETA Ninjad ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/816 "2023-04-08T21:38:20Z")
> [@dougrb](#): > > ETA Ninjad In all fairness, you really got there first- you posted while I was editing to include that detail. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/817 "2023-04-08T21:44:49Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Might be tough to pull that off, since he repeatedly (and as recently as yesterday) said he never had an affair with Stormy. Maybe he figures a one-off does not constitute an affair. ---
**Author:** ![dougrb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@dougrb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougrb)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/818 "2023-04-08T22:29:42Z")
@Ann_Hedonia You did say it more eloquently. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/819 "2023-04-08T22:40:59Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Maybe he figures a one-off does not constitute an affair. She failed the probationary stage. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/820 "2023-04-08T22:54:34Z")
Without meaning to defend the Indefensible One, he would not be the first (ex-)President to split hairs about the wording of his relationship with some conveniently located woman. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953.md?page=40) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953.md?page=42)