# Manhattan Prosecutors file criminal charges for Trump re Stormy Daniels case - ongoing discussion here (Guilty on all 34 counts, May 30, 2024) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [March 9, 2023, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953 "2023-03-09T22:53:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 78
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2024, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/1541 "2024-04-16T22:34:21Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I always wish for a flying rainbow unicorn that shits soft serve icecream. Too late. [![](https://www.geekalerts.com/u/Canned-Unicorn-Meat.jpg) ](https://www.geekalerts.com/u/Canned-Unicorn-Meat.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2024, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/1542 "2024-04-16T22:37:09Z")
Unsurprisingly, the Orange Felon-to-be is now trying to intimidate jurors … > **[Trump admonished by judge on second day of criminal trial](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-judge-court-jury-intimidation-b2529790.html)** > > Justice Juan Merchan slams former president for his ‘audible’ remarks and gestures towards potential juror I think it’s only a matter of time before he’s removed from the courtroom entirely, possibly into a jail cell as the judge already threatened. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2024, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/1543 "2024-04-16T22:37:28Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > What are the rules of evidence, anyway? Can the prosecution attempt to bring in remarks made publicly out of court while during the trial, including jury selection ? See _Reed v McCord_ (160 NY 330, 341[1899]) which held that “admissions by a party of any fact material to the issue are always competent evidence against him, wherever, whenever, or to whomsoever made.” However, most judges would not allow case specific evidence to come into play during jury selection. But certainly it could be used at trial ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2024, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/1544 "2024-04-16T22:37:40Z")
Deleted - I misunderstood the question. ---
**Author:** ![dougrb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@dougrb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougrb)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2024, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/1545 "2024-04-16T22:37:54Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > In fact, as long as I’m understanding that correctly, he’s stuck in the middle of all this because he didn’t want to owe taxes on the 130k, taxes that he likely wouldn’t have paid anyway. That’s the schadenfreudee part. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2024, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/1546 "2024-04-16T22:41:53Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > What are the rules of evidence, anyway? Can the prosecution attempt to bring in remarks made publicly out of court while during the trial, including jury selection Yeah this was my thought too. Would it matter if Trump testified (unlikely). If he testifies the prosecutor can presumably play the tape and then ask him “hey is the you admitting to this crime”, maybe? If he doesn’t can they enter it as evidence? ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2024, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/1547 "2024-04-16T22:42:54Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > See _Reed v McCord_ (160 NY 330, 341[1899]) which held that “admissions by a party of any fact material to the issue are always competent evidence against him, wherever, whenever, or to whomsoever made.” Ah. I asked in part because some talking head on MSNBC yesterday that Trump would go to cameras and microphones every day of this trial and basically campaign right in the courthouse and not face any consequences for it. Which I could see if he said nothing material about this case, but I figured had to be wrong about if he basically did what was claimed in that link. Not that I ever trust some pundit on cable news to actually be right about anything these days. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2024, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/1548 "2024-04-16T22:46:28Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I don’t believe anything that [Michael Cohen] says even if it goes against Don. Agreed. Everything needs corroboration. Re Cohen’s claim that Trump doesn’t attend graduations, here’s fairly recent one he might have remembered since it was widely reported: [Trump and Biden attend family members’ Penn graduation ceremony](https://www.cnn.com/2016/05/15/politics/donald-trump-joe-biden-university-of-pennsylvania-graduation/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2024, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/1549 "2024-04-16T22:50:44Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > Unless otherwise determined by the court, the juror whose name was first drawn shall be designated as the foreperson. When I was foreman, when we all sat together the bailiff said to talk amongst yourselves and pick a foreman. Not a word was spoken, and everyone suddenly needed to examine an lint on their shirt. I wanted to get the show on the road, so I suggested drawing straws or any random thing. They decided that I was so smart that I should be the foreman. I was unanimously elected. Fine. I think another reason was that the idiot bailiff set a rifle on the table (evidence), pointing at one of us. I immediately removed it and set it in a corner. I do not give one damn if it’s unloaded. It is considered loaded at all times and you DO NOT point it at people. Idiot. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2024, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/1550 "2024-04-16T23:42:49Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > When I was foreman, when we all sat together the bailiff said to talk amongst yourselves and pick a foreman. Both times I sat on a jury, the _only_ person who talked to us before and during the trial was the court clerk, who informed us that she (it was a woman both times) was the only person we were allowed to talk to (other than each other, and what goes on in that jury room while the lawyers are arguing fine points in the courtroom, let me tell you, it is like a fucking party in there). ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2024, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/1551 "2024-04-16T23:50:31Z")
“Anything you say can and will be used against you in court”. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2024, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/1552 "2024-04-16T23:53:50Z")
Seven jurors have been chosen. Each side has used six of their ten challenges. The court doesn’t meet on Wednesdays so the circus will continue on Thursday morning. It will go more quickly when the challenges are used up I suspect. A Monday start seems reasonable. They need eleven more jurors (five regular, six alternates) > **[Trump trial update: Trump rebuked by judge for speaking during jury selection...](https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-trial-update-trump-rebuked-by-judge-for-speaking-during-jury-selection--and-7-jurors-are-seated-215115350.html)** > > On Tuesday, the second day of former President Donald Trump’s hush money trial, Judge Juan Merchan rebuked defense lawyers after Trump was heard muttering his disapproval of an answer given by a potential juror in the case. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/1553 "2024-04-17T00:01:27Z")
Nevrrmnd i fkkd it upp ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/1554 "2024-04-17T00:07:27Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Agreed. Everything needs corroboration. You need to bring the receipts. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/1555 "2024-04-17T00:26:10Z")
Something I learned in the corporate world (large multinational corporation): If it isn’t documented, it didn’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/1556 "2024-04-17T00:26:23Z")
I’m not sure how much this will count against him. All he basically said is that he paid his lawyer (Cohen) a bunch of money and classified it as a legal expense. That is clearly obvious from the evidence. As I see it, the part that is in question is whether these payments were actually to reimburse Cohen for hush payments, and whether such a payment constituted a campaign expense. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/1557 "2024-04-17T00:28:57Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > If it isn’t documented, it didn’t happen. Didn’t Cohen _record_ his conversations with Trump? > **[Michael Cohen Secretly Taped Trump Discussing Payment to Playboy Model...](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/20/us/politics/michael-cohen-trump-tape.html)** > > The F.B.I. seized the recording in a raid. Its existence recording highlights the potential legal and political danger that Mr. Cohen represents to the president. I wonder if there are more discussions than what we already know exist. > [@](#): > > **Credibility is one part of this trial.** [**The other c-word that comes up is “corroboration.”**](https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/04/11/trump-alvin-bragg-trial-win-00151558) **And that’s something that you and Lanny Davis, your adviser and attorney, talk about a lot: that there will be corroboration. What can you tell us about that? Is this a stronger case when it comes to corroboration than people understand on the outside?** > > [Michael Cohen] If it wasn’t, Alvin Bragg and his team of prosecutors would never have brought this case. > > **Do you think we’ll be surprised by it — by some of the corroborating evidence?** > > [MC] I do. [https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/04/12/michael-cohen-trump-trial-surprise-00151868](https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/04/12/michael-cohen-trump-trial-surprise-00151868) ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/1558 "2024-04-17T01:10:17Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I think it’s only a matter of time before he’s removed from the courtroom entirely, possibly into a jail cell as the judge already threatened. I would rather he got the Bobby Seale treatment. [![](https://www.loc.gov/static/exhibitions/drawing-justice-courtroom-illustrations/images/objects/political-activists-on-trial/dj0039-enlarge.jpg) ](https://www.loc.gov/static/exhibitions/drawing-justice-courtroom-illustrations/images/objects/political-activists-on-trial/dj0039-enlarge.jpg) > [@enipla](#): > > I wanted to get the show on the road, so I suggested drawing straws or any random thing. They decided that I was so smart that I should be the foreman. A Lockheed engineer I knew served as juror and foreman in a civil trial. During voir dir it was evident both the plaintiff’s and defendant’s lawyers were not aiming for the sharpest knives in the drawer – except him. After the trial when he was talking with the attorneys he asked why they were okay with him as the exception. One of the lawyers shrugged. “Somebody’s got to be foreman.” ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/1559 "2024-04-17T01:54:48Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > I’m not sure how much this will count against him. I don’t know. I mean calling it a confession is a bit hyperbolic, but it does corroborate a big part of the case against him: > I was paying a lawyer and marked it down as a legal expense. As others have pointed out a lot of the prosecution is going to involve corroborating what Michael Cohen says (as he’s a fairly unreliable witness), and that’s a big chunk of it right there. He paid a lawyer for something and “marked it down” as a legal expense (the implication being it was something other than a legitimate legal expense). Additionally the way he immediately corrects himself and blames it on “some accountant” is presumably telegraphing what his defense will be. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/1560 "2024-04-17T02:21:44Z")
I saw a clip on the news where Trump was testilying outside the courthouse, blabbering to the cameras about how he was handed checks for legal services so he signed them, thinking he was paying for legal services. I bet his lawyers wish they could literally ( and I mean _ **literally** _, not that new “literally” that means figuratively) put a muzzle on him. Because ISTM that the “this was done behind my back, I was clueless” defense is not only unlikely to work because of the overwhelming contradictory evidence, but it precludes the use of defenses that might stand a chance — “like the “I only did it because I didn’t want Melania to find out.” He really is his own worst enemy, legally speaking. Sometimes I think he acts guilty on purpose. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953.md?page=77) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953.md?page=79)