# manhattan the madhatter **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 6, 2001, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-the-madhatter/48721 "2001-01-06T09:19:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2001, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-the-madhatter/48721/21 "2001-01-07T00:43:50Z")
Yay!! One more drop of chlorine in the Straight Dope meme pool!! ---
**Author:** ![Upham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Upham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Upham)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2001, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-the-madhatter/48721/22 "2001-01-07T00:50:30Z")
**YOU’RE A FUCKIN JACK ASS GRIENSPACE** i think that about covers it. Upham ---
**Author:** ![Pit\_Meister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Pit\_Meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pit_Meister)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2001, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-the-madhatter/48721/23 "2001-01-07T01:02:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Smeghead \* > \*\*Yay!! One more drop of chlorine in the Straight Dope meme pool!! \*\* I believe you _surely_ must mean **the Straight Dope mime pool**. Where all the mimes practice escaping from a water death cell. Like Teller of Penn and Teller. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2001, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-the-madhatter/48721/24 "2001-01-11T05:07:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Upham \* > \*\ ***YOU’RE A FUCKIN JACK ASS GRIENSPACE** > > i think that about covers it. > Upham \*\* Seems to me that the common perception is that I intentionally broke the rules and this has really upset you Upham. Let me quote from theStraight Dope Message Board Rules “…You agree,through your use of this service that you will not use this BB to post any material which is knowingly false and/or **defamatory** inaccurate **abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane,** threatening…” I can’t find any other rule which supercedes this, Pit or otherwise and freely admit, unfortunately, that I have been in violation of the above mentioned rule myself. In following the example of Dopers, I had forgotten what I had agreed to. I’m sure in the real world you are a very nice person Upham. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2001, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-the-madhatter/48721/25 "2001-01-11T05:35:48Z")
I don’t know anything about **Grienspace’s** behavior elsewhere on the boards, but I really don’t see what set **manhattan** off in the referenced thread. Grienspace asked a very specific question, with a reasonably specific answer. “Since it was observation of the planets that lead to our figuring out that the earth revolves around the sun, if there had been no other planets, is there another way we could have figured it out.” It certainly isn’t a great discussion, IMHO, MPSIMS question so I don’t know where he should have put it. Someone later asked if there was point to the question? He responded with a philosophical answer about why we try to answer any hypothetical question (though his analogy is weak because the Hitler abortion question is one of morality and ethics whereas the question he asked in one of physics). As part of that response - which is apparently what manhattan keyed off of - he goes on to say “and I even wonder if we would be able to ascertain the true nature of the gravitational relationship between the sun and the earth at all.” Once again he repeated his question, which I think is completely appropriate for General Questions, even if the REASON he asked the question is philosophical. I may ask “what makes cough syrup taste bad” (an appropriate GQ topic) so that I can fit the answer into my FDA conspiracy theory (an appropriate GD topic) but I think it should still go in GQ, and if the discussion strays to the conspiracy theory then it gets moved to GD. Perhaps grienspace’s behavior in general has been abominable and the mods are looking for a reason to slap him back in line, but I don’t think this thread was a good choice. ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2001, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-the-madhatter/48721/26 "2001-01-11T05:43:46Z")
This has been done **obfus**. The thread is [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=54308&pagenumber=1) and **manhattan** ’s response can be found on page 2. I _can’t imagine_ why **grienspace** is trying to fire this up again. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2001, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-the-madhatter/48721/27 "2001-01-11T05:52:08Z")
**Manny** , disregard what I said above, I was just directed to your [post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=1036082#post1036082) in another thread where you addressed most of my concerns. ---
**Author:** ![Missy2U](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@Missy2U](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Missy2U)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2001, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-the-madhatter/48721/28 "2001-01-11T15:36:33Z")
You know, this is SO not fair. I never got an email from Manny. I got emails from UncleBeer, Tuba, Jill, CDexter, Euty, David B - I got these nice emails all over the place. But NEVER EVER one from Manny. I feel so left out…so unloved…so unwanted… grienspace, get a grip. It’s a message board. Rule #1 - don’t be a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![andygirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@andygirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andygirl)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2001, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-the-madhatter/48721/29 "2001-01-11T18:55:24Z")
Grienspace, before you get yourself booted for good, might I suggest a vacation? What I mean is that you’re just not letting this go. Take a break. Leave for a few days, a week or two, however long it takes. Look, the point is that you’ve gotten so wrapped up in this that you’ve lost perspective. I hope you joined this board to fight ignorance. Now, even assuming Manny was wrong (and the general consensus is that he wasn’t) then this is certainly not the way to go about things. It’s like watching a long, slow march towards doom. Perhaps a fresh start might be in order? The dead horse ain’t moving, and this will most likely end badly. Consider just stepping away and returning with a different perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Tymp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Tymp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tymp)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2001, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-the-madhatter/48721/30 "2001-01-11T19:03:31Z")
**andygirl:** He’s already stated his intention of leaving us. He might return with a new perspective, but he might not. I’m not going to lose any sleep over this newly formed void in my life. ---
**Author:** ![andygirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@andygirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andygirl)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2001, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-the-madhatter/48721/31 "2001-01-11T19:26:12Z")
Indeed. Of course, there’s a difference between saying “You all suck enormously and I’m leaving” and actually doing it. I’m off to take a nap myself. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2001, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-the-madhatter/48721/32 "2001-01-11T23:33:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by picmr \* > \*\*This has been done **obfus**. The thread is [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=54308&pagenumber=1) and **manhattan** ’s response can be found on page 2. I _can’t imagine_ why **grienspace** is trying to fire this up again. \*\* If you will look carefully at **grienspace’s** reply, **picmr** (and **andygirl** too), it is directed only at **Upham’s** juvenile message and is really quite polite. He doesn’t seem to be trying to reopen the discusion in general - although after several days, it might have been better for him to just let the matter rest. As he correctly points out, **Upham’s** message is technically in violation of the registration agreement we all signed - and just posted by **Uncle Beer** [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=54905) - and **Upham** thus makes himself potentially subject to banning as well. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone . . . As **picmr** says, this case has been thoroughly discussed in a quite rational manner in the thread he cited (which is more than I can say about this one). For the record, **manhattan** admitted he might have over-reacted. (And as this was on Jan. 8, everyone here should be aware of it.) I think the case is closed. Everyone, including **grienspace** , should stop posting to this thread and let it die a natural death. I am only doing so now because it popped up again after thankfully disappearing for a few days. **Grienspace** , even if this experience has been unpleasant for you, I do think you should put it behind you and move on. You certainly don’t seem to be any worse than many other posters, and better than some whom I don’t care to name. I think you should just go back to posting in a normal manner, and not bring it up again. **Coldfire** has specifically stated that your posting privileges are not in jeopardy, and I would take his word for it - unless he chooses to contradict that. Also for the record, these are the two offenses for which the registration agreement mentions a contact with ISP Service is warranted: > [@](#): > > \*\* > Vandalism of the site through inappropriate use of HTML or other code is grounds for immediate banning. Vandals will be reported to their Internet services provider. In extreme cases we may refer site vandalism to the police. > \*\* \*\* > [@](#): > > Advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and solicitations are not permitted on this BB and will be deleted. We will notify the Internet service provider of any party posting objectionable messages.\*\* Many other offenses are listed that may be punished by revocation of posting privileges, but these are the only two mentioned in the registration agreement as being suitable for contact with an ISP. (OK, maybe “objectionable messages” could be stretched to cover posts in the wrong forum, but that doesn’t seem to be the sense of this paragraph.) And before anyone else points it out, the registration agreement also includes this: \*\* > [@](#): > > Please remember that you are our guest here, and that we must reserve the right to exclude you at our whim, for any or no reason whatsoever. By registering and using the board you acknowledge this right and agree to abide by our rules and to submit to their interpretation and enforcement by our moderators and editors.\*\* So the SDMB administration _does_ have the right to do whatever it pleases, presumably including a contact with an ISP service, even if that goes beyond what is stated elsewhere in the registration agreement. Let me state again that it is not my intention to start this discussion again, as it has already been covered pretty thoroughly. Whether you agree or disagree with what happened to **grienspace** , I suggest you let it go. Bumping this thread any further serves no purpose. If you want to discuss some specific aspect of this some more, start another thread. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2001, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-the-madhatter/48721/33 "2001-01-12T00:06:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Colibri - directed at **grienspace** \* > **Coldfire** has specifically stated that your posting privileges are not in jeopardy, and I would take his word for it - unless he chooses to contradict that. As long as he sticks to the rules and actually gives us the impression that he is _reading_ our constructive criticism by taking it to heart: sure. He can post all he wants. ---
**Author:** ![Xploder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/a183cd/32.png) [@Xploder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xploder)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2001, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-the-madhatter/48721/34 "2001-01-12T00:35:52Z")
I have NOT read the thread in question and don’t intend to, BUT, it seems to me that too many of the posters on this board seem to believe that this is real life rather than a MESSAGE BOARD and don’t take into consideration the fact that if you want to leave, nobody really gives a shit. Very often, I see threads that state…YOU ALL SUCK, I’M LEAVING AND NEVER COMING BACK!!! THE MOD’S ARE ALL OUT TO GET ME!!! There’s the door…try not to let the knob stick in yer ass on the way out. My two cents worth…for what it’s worth. X ---
**Author:** ![Upham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Upham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Upham)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2001, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-the-madhatter/48721/35 "2001-01-12T01:10:50Z")
Juvenile? Yep. Do i regret it? Nope. > [@](#): > > Seems to me that the common perception is that I intentionally broke the rules and this has really upset you Upham **grienspace** Quite honestly what bothers me is when i see people playing melodramatic games (as, in my opinion, you have). Personally, your conduct in dealing with this situation has left me with the opinion that you are either purposely trying to start more trouble then you’re worth or, simply, that you are being a jackass. That’s just what I think, and that’s why I called you one. I’m sorry if you really are taking any of this too close to heart, in the real world I’d probably drink with you, but damn man, there’s really no need to drag something like this on for so long. This would all be much easier if you’d learn your lesson and move on, I did (or so I like to think) **Colibri** > [@](#): > > As he correctly points out, **Upham’s** message is technically in violation of the registration agreement we all signed…. and **Upham** thus makes himself potentially subject to banning as well. It is, of course, _very_ important and in the best interest of everybody that the rules here be followed. If you really think I am being that out of line, by all means report me to a Mod and have me banned. > [@](#): > > Let he who is without sin cast the first stone… Spare me. I’m going to go smoke my pipe and hope this thread’s dead when i get back. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2001, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-the-madhatter/48721/36 "2001-01-12T02:02:47Z")
Banning someone for calling another poster “a fucking jackass”? In the Pit, even? In response to a threat that said poster started himself, thusly inviting criticism? The word “fucking” appears in MPSIMS threads from time to time, so that can’t be it. By deduction, calling someone a “jackass” must be reason enough to ban someone, according to some people. That’ll be the day. “Jackass”. Next thing you know we’ll be banning someone for calling another poster “doo doo head”. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2001, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-the-madhatter/48721/37 "2001-01-12T02:26:11Z")
grienspace-you’re a doo-doo head! _runs out of the room_ ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2001, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-the-madhatter/48721/38 "2001-01-12T09:16:31Z")
Thankyou for the link picmr. I would like to take the opportunity to thank all those Dopers who went to the trouble of emailing me to share their frustrations and support for me. I take great comfort that I am not alone. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2001, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-the-madhatter/48721/39 "2001-01-12T10:20:01Z")
Get over yourself. Manny may have gone a bit overboard but you where still being a **tit**. Now forget about all this and just try to do your own thing without getting people all riled up. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2001, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-the-madhatter/48721/40 "2001-01-12T16:16:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > \*\*Banning someone for calling another poster “a fucking jackass”? In the Pit, even? In response to a threat that said poster started himself, thusly inviting criticism? > > The word “fucking” appears in MPSIMS threads from time to time, so that can’t be it. By deduction, calling someone a “jackass” must be reason enough to ban someone, according to some people. > > That’ll be the day. > > “Jackass”. Next thing you know we’ll be banning someone for calling another poster “doo doo head”. \*\* No, of course not, **Coldfire** , that wasn’t my point, nor that of of **grienspace** in his response to **Upham**. But the fact that people aren’t banned for this practice in the Pit, or elsewhere, is just a matter of commonly-recognized convention. _According to the registration agreement_, use of obscenity is a valid reason for banning, anywhere on the board, Pit or not, and that is the only point I wanted to make with my remark. I would bet that the majority of members on the board who have been posting for any length of time, myself included, have committed some infraction that is _technically_ in violation of the registration agreement in some way. **Upham** , I am not for a minute suggesting that you should be banned, but only that the rules permit it, even if forum convention allows it. The registration agreement obviously can’t cover every contingency, and hence is very broad. While it does not imply that banning is a typical punishment for posting in the wrong forum, and by convention it is not, I _can_ see circumstances where it would be invoked. I recall one member, whose name I won’t bring up to save him embarassment, who was warned very clearly that he had a sufficiently bad track record that he would be banned for the most minor infraction, specifically including posting in the wrong forum. I have no problem with that in extreme cases. **Grienspace** has obviously let himself in for a lot of additional grief by making this whole thing public. That was clearly the wrong strategy. I have seen it stated repeatedly that the proper procedure for a member who feels he is being unfairly treated by a particular moderator, or thinks he is being banned in error or inappropriately, should contact another moderator or administrator by e-mail. I expect that **Tubadiva** or **Lynn** would give very short shrift to something as minor as a thread being locked for being in the wrong forum, as that is a judgement call by the moderator, but contacting another moderator in a non-confrontational way might at least get you some additional insight about why the thread was locked. On the other hand, since the punishment that was originally suggested for **grienspace** is in excess of that spelled out in the registration agreement, and **TubaDiva** and **Lynn** are reasonable people, in this case it might be fair to think he might at least get a hearing. I would agree he was in error in starting this thread as his first response, and his choice of a title was particularly unfortunate. I would, however, also point out that since **grienspace** has made exactly two relatively non-confrontational posts to this thread since starting it, he’s not exactly the one who is keeping it alive. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-the-madhatter/48721.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-the-madhatter/48721.md?page=3)