# Manhattan: wake up call or whiny bitch? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 25, 2005, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-wake-up-call-or-whiny-bitch/305439 "2005-05-25T15:07:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-wake-up-call-or-whiny-bitch/305439/121 "2005-05-26T07:18:45Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > I’ve cut my posting down in Great Debates by about 90%. Days go by when I drop in there, see an interesting thread, then see who’s participating in it and go, “Why bother? Life’s too short.” - and move along. > > I’ve come to expect that political debates are generally a waste of time. No minds are changed. But the debate itself can be fun amd help clarify your own thinking and occasionally challenge your beliefs and cause you to grow as a person. But as soon as it becomes an exercise in who can land the cleverest insult without getting nailed by a mod, or even just a shouting match, it’s not just a waste of time but counterproductive. > > So I hang out more in Cafe Society, IMHO, and the other boards, and what do you know, I get along famously with some of the people who are impossible to talk to in GD. > > Politics makes people nuts. If you become really nuts, you can be a politician. > > Maybe it will change in a few years after Bush is gone and the war stops being in the news every day. But my guess is that it won’t get that much better until a Democrat is elected and the wacky left calms the hell down. > > Then the wacky right will probably start screaming… Maybe I’ll just go talk about TV and movies some more. I know we haven’t crossed paths very often but I, for one enjoyed debating against you. I’m sorry if I may have seemed excessively antagonistic in some threads as I largely agree with many of your positions but I tend to assume the role of devil’s advocate too easily. It’s refreshing to have you as one of the intellgent voices of dissent in economics debates and I would personally miss it if you stopped bothering. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-wake-up-call-or-whiny-bitch/305439/122 "2005-05-26T07:21:55Z")
Much as I disagree with **manhattan** ’s complaint, if anybody wants a clearer example of what whiny bitching might be, I’d check out the post **roger thornhill** links to in the ATMB thread announcing **manhattan** ’s departure. Politics aside, it’s a shame if he felt things were so bitter here he couldn’t even be a part of the SDSAB. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-wake-up-call-or-whiny-bitch/305439/123 "2005-05-26T07:53:51Z")
[This is the farewell post by owlstretchingtime](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6100957&postcount=152) that **Marley** is referring to, to save people who are interested from the rigmarole of looking it up. As I reread **Owl** ’s last hoot and reflected on the at times uneasy relationship **GorillaMan** (early 20s, but neither shrill nor as far as I’m aware overly leftie) has with the US members of the board - not to mention my own experiences - I wonder whether the cultural divide is not a major factor in the feeling of disassociation/disfiliation that some “foreign” posters might feel. I have noted with interest that many Aussie posters, who popped their heads over the parapets around the time of the election to say they were going to vote for Howard, keep a low profile at other times. It may just be the time difference, which makes real-time debate less possible for those at the other side of the world, but I think part of the reason is the alliance-mentality that is perceived to exist, which can actually manifest itslef in a number of ways, as I have tried to indicate in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Eolbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@Eolbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eolbo)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-wake-up-call-or-whiny-bitch/305439/124 "2005-05-26T09:42:36Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I was going to say this; from where I’m standing (which is not {i]all that far to the left of centre\*, locally) there does actually seem to be a right-wing bias here. Funny really. I think we also tend to think there happens to be too much of [whatever it is we happen to disagree with]. That’s how it seems to me too. I’m an Australian of moderately left wing persuasion by local standards which presumably makes me a frothing-mouthed leftie by US ones. With that in mind the board comes accross to me as less right wing then most American dominated boards but by no means as a left wing one. Issues such as gun control, support for Israel, and large scale resistance in the US to the idea of a national health care system really bring on home just how far to the right US politics lie from the global norm. ---
**Author:** ![Sarah\_Woodruff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sarah\_Woodruff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarah_Woodruff)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-wake-up-call-or-whiny-bitch/305439/125 "2005-05-26T10:00:17Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I was going to say this; from where I’m standing (which is not {i]all that far to the left of centre\*, locally) there does actually seem to be a right-wing bias here. Funny really. I think we also tend to think there happens to be too much of [whatever it is we happen to disagree with]. Yeah, when I first came across “this board is _soooo_ leftie-infested” posts, I was all ready to chuckle thinking they were whooshes. Apparently not. The American version of left-wing tree-hugger-Neil-from-Young-Ones is obviously not the same as the rest-of-world’s version. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-wake-up-call-or-whiny-bitch/305439/126 "2005-05-26T10:50:33Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Gotta add, **Bricker** , anyone reading your link would get to the point where you admitted you never actually had an argument in the first place. Just so you don’t leave a false impression here, ya know. Yes, you get to the place where, having been provided with cogent and detailed argument, I acknowledged that my original position and OP had been in error. Kinda my point, sweetums. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-wake-up-call-or-whiny-bitch/305439/127 "2005-05-26T12:54:04Z")
Umm… **gobear** left? _sniff_ ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-wake-up-call-or-whiny-bitch/305439/128 "2005-05-26T13:04:59Z")
**Bricker** , are you ever going to point to a time when I should have done so but refused? I’ve asked several times, and all you’ve done in response is to whine. Your perception that I’ve helped you discover your own errors and inconsistencies on more than one occasion is accurate, of course. But have you ever reciprocated? Ever? Bueller? For that matter, any of you other children? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-wake-up-call-or-whiny-bitch/305439/129 "2005-05-26T13:41:32Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > **Bricker** , are you ever going to point to a time when I should have done so but refused? I’ve asked several times, and all you’ve done in response is to whine. Your perception that I’ve helped you discover your own errors and inconsistencies on more than one occasion is accurate, of course. But have you ever reciprocated? Ever? Bueller? For that matter, any of you other children? Yes, I did so above. In that same thread, you claimed that textualism was literalism. Since textualism is a well-understood aspect of strict constructionism - and is NOT literalism - I said it wasn’t, and asked you for a cite showing that it was. You refused to provide the cite or retract the statement, despite several requests. When the point was pressed, yuo said you weren’t going to respond to tantrums. But you were wrong. You didn’t admit it, and when pressed, you dodged instead of answering. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-wake-up-call-or-whiny-bitch/305439/130 "2005-05-26T13:54:09Z")
> [@roger thornhill](#): > > Nice post. Thanks. I really do think that both sides of the aisle must talk to one another. [hijack]Frankly, I see the neo-cons as being the more close minded on this(listening and talking). Take Bolton, for instance–reservations are brought up and given weight and the those reservations are dismissed. “just trust us” seems to be the motto of the neo-cons-“we know what we’re doing. Shut up and get out of our way.” Um, No. You wanted to drive the bus–okay–but good bus drivers listen to their passengers and try to provide a safe trip for those inside the bus, as well as those we may meet on the journey.[end/hijack] And I was wrong–it was **Martine Hyde** whose existence I had forgotten about until I opened another thread this morning. So, sorry, **manhattan** for ascribing to you the snarkiness of another poster. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-wake-up-call-or-whiny-bitch/305439/131 "2005-05-26T14:35:12Z")
Two bits says he’s back. The guy’s a diva. He’s read every word of this thread, and related threads. (Hi, **Manny**!) Your middlin’ size frog, he loves a small pond. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-wake-up-call-or-whiny-bitch/305439/132 "2005-05-26T14:41:54Z")
Oh yeah, he’ll be back. No one who has tasted the SDMB can resist the sweet yam-yam, the white lotus, shanghai sally. The first 24 hours are the worst, you should wear a poncho. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-wake-up-call-or-whiny-bitch/305439/133 "2005-05-26T14:51:36Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Since textualism is a well-understood aspect of strict constructionism - and is NOT literalism Assuming facts not in evidence. You essentially later acknowledged, those terms can mean whatever you want them to mean. If the terms are “well understood”, it’s only by yourself and by your fellow rationalizers. > [@](#): > > When the point was pressed, yuo said you weren’t going to respond to tantrums. And I’m still not. > [@](#): > > But you were wrong. You didn’t admit it, and when pressed, you dodged instead of answering. C’mon, this is the best you’ve got? You had to face the fact that you were spouting shit, and you want \*me \* to apologize for it? Any of you other children got something? Anything? ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-wake-up-call-or-whiny-bitch/305439/134 "2005-05-26T14:58:15Z")
**beagledave** , please add me to the “Leftys who think **ElvisL1ves** is an asshole” list, please. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-wake-up-call-or-whiny-bitch/305439/135 "2005-05-26T14:58:24Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > I see no need to apologize for bashing Bush at every given opportunity… People engaging in “(B)ashing Bush at every given opportunity” is called “trolling”, and apologies aside the Moderators should have some remedies for that. > [@](#): > > The conservatives on this board would love nothing more than to have us all just admit defeat and shut up. Yes, all conservatives, everywhere, including the ones like me who dislike and distrust Bush and didn’t vote for him in either election. I thought the official word was that only hateful eeeeeeeevil conservatives made hyperbolic generalizations to demonize political opponents…where, oh where have all the flowers gone? > [@](#): > > 49% of voters, and a good percentage more on this board are still pissed off and feel an obligation to rattle those sabres until November, 2008. Because working to pollute threads on a single, already heavily-slanted-against-Bush internet message Board is going to change things - right. If you and others like you are at all representative of the anti-Republican sentiment of the nation, Republicans are going to coast into office in 2008. Good luck with all that. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-wake-up-call-or-whiny-bitch/305439/136 "2005-05-26T15:06:43Z")
> [@Una Persson](#): > > Am I being whooshed? I don’t understand what you’re talking about. A-1, B-2, C-3,…T-20, U-21…What word rhymes with “U”? Oh–YOU! So that board belongs to you, but I only use it as an example of how the political flavor of a board can cause me to avoid the parts that include discussions that are political or can be politicized. and how I find it especially awkward when I’m friends with the people with whom I would be disagreeing. Nobody wants to think their friends hold the same views as people one considers morons; it reflects poorly on the friends and the person who chose them as friends. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-wake-up-call-or-whiny-bitch/305439/137 "2005-05-26T15:08:23Z")
Niether of my friends are morons. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-wake-up-call-or-whiny-bitch/305439/138 "2005-05-26T15:13:31Z")
> [@Random](#): > > But back to the policy threads. Maybe the answer is some sort of board shorthand that means “In my opinion, your reply is nonsense and not deserving of a reply. If anyone sensible disagrees, let me know, and I may change my mind.” > … > I know, probably unworkable and (outside of the Pit) in violation of board rules. But I wish that such an option existed. I dunno. Seems almost SENSIBLE and you know how little space we have for the sensible in this polarized (can you be polarized when the poles are as close as the rest of the world sees them?) political atmosphere. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-wake-up-call-or-whiny-bitch/305439/139 "2005-05-26T15:16:16Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Niether of my friends are morons. 1. Repeat after me, “I before E except after C or when sounding like A as in neighbor or weigh.” 2. Then you have successfully avoided the topics on which the ARE morons. Everybody is a moron about something. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-wake-up-call-or-whiny-bitch/305439/140 "2005-05-26T15:21:43Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > 1. Repeat after me, “I before E except after C or when sounding like A as in neighbor or weigh.” Or in words that are complete exceptions such as weird. People say English is the hardest language for a non-native speaker to get a handle on. I believe it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-wake-up-call-or-whiny-bitch/305439.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-wake-up-call-or-whiny-bitch/305439.md?page=8)