# Manhunt 2 Banned **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 20, 2007, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhunt-2-banned/408708 "2007-06-20T13:18:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhunt-2-banned/408708/61 "2007-06-21T17:22:52Z")
[QUOTE=si\_blakely] I’m not crying over Manhunt - it’s not art. And I think that films like _Hostel_ and _Kill Bill_ should have been banned, too. Nasty and pointless. [/QUOTE] Super. If you could help out by drawing up a list— two categories, art and not art— we can get started banning everything in your “no” column. Thanks in advance for stepping up to the task. We really need a firm decision-maker in charge of these things, otherwise the masses would be left to decide for themselves whether or not things had artistic or entertainment value. It’d be aesthetic anarchy. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhunt-2-banned/408708/62 "2007-06-21T17:40:58Z")
[QUOTE=fetus] Here’s the rub: artistic censorship is barbarian. Thread over. [/QUOTE] Yep, when I think of barbarians, I think of people going around ruthlessly and brutally censoring videogames for being too violent. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhunt-2-banned/408708/63 "2007-06-21T17:42:16Z")
[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip] Super. If you could help out by drawing up a list— two categories, art and not art— we can get started banning everything in your “no” column. Thanks in advance for stepping up to the task. We really need a firm decision-maker in charge of these things, otherwise the masses would be left to decide for themselves whether or not things had artistic or entertainment value. It’d be aesthetic anarchy. [/QUOTE] I don’t need to - we’ve got the BBFC to do that for us 😉 The fact that Hostel and Kill Bill were released in the UK probably indicates that I should not be in charge, which is fine by me. But the Government (with the power vested in it by the will of the people) has the right to define that there are limits to the freedom of publishers to produce books and films and games. And to prevent cries of political interference, that body is **independent**. And they don’t actually ban very much, so for them to ban Manhunt 2 (and not Hostel/Kill Bill/Saw III) means that they had good reason. Si ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhunt-2-banned/408708/64 "2007-06-21T18:48:22Z")
I profess to complete ignorance over UK censorship laws— but what does “independent” mean, in this case? Does it also mean they are answerable to no one? In the U.S. we have the MPAA, another ostensibly “independent” group, to assign ratings to movies that are “voluntarily” submitted by the film producers. Sneer quotes employed because while they are “independent” in the sense that they are not a government body, they are (as [this documentary](http://imdb.com/title/tt0493459/) recently illustrated) an extremely shadowy group that keeps its membership highly secret, provides no transparency on who assigns the ratings or what method they use to determine them, and offers no realistic recourse for filmmakers to appeal the ratings. And “voluntary” in that filmmakers are not required to submit their films for ratings, but failing to do so is a _de facto_ death knell for the movie’s chance at commercial success, as most distributors and theaters will refuse to show unrated movies. (Employing some detective work and going through the ratings process for his own film, the documentary director discovered that the ratings board included members of the clergy and the “appeals board” was composed largely of film distributors, theater chain owners, and major film industry executives.) ---
**Author:** ![Haunted](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/898d66/32.png) [@Haunted](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haunted)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhunt-2-banned/408708/65 "2007-06-21T19:07:57Z")
Here’s the [statement about Manhunt](http://www.bbfc.co.uk/news/press/20070619.html) on the BBFC website. I guess we can decide for ourselves if we think these are good reasons or not. ---
**Author:** ![Haunted](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/898d66/32.png) [@Haunted](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haunted)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhunt-2-banned/408708/66 "2007-06-21T19:14:58Z")
Meanwhile, I shall be on the lookout for the CCFC, for they are a real threat and truly scary. They can’t even [be bothered](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,284532,00.html) to check out the product before giving their collective opinion. > [@](#): > > Though nobody at the Boston-based Campaign for a Commercial-Free Childhood has seen or played the game, it wrote in a letter to Patricia Vance, president of the Entertainment Software Rating Board, that “Manhunt 2” should be given an “Adults Only” rating instead of a more lenient “Mature” rating. ---
**Author:** ![Aioua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@Aioua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aioua)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhunt-2-banned/408708/67 "2007-06-21T19:29:07Z")
I just want to say I am surprised that the BBFC has the power to _ban_ a work. Seriously, they can do that? If I’m Joe Q. Storeowner (and I was in the UK) and I order some copies directly from Rockstar, and put up some huge ads saying that I’ve got Manhunt 2, the cops are going to come take them away? I can understand a de facto banning, like Manhunt 2 is likely to get: If it stays rated AO (by the ESRB, American video game raters) Nintendo won’t let it be on Wii, and most retailers wouldn’t publish it (if they found a platform, probally PC). But a full on Manhunt is _illegal?_ Color me surprised. ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhunt-2-banned/408708/68 "2007-06-21T19:31:42Z")
[QUOTE=Aioua] I just want to say I am surprised that the BBFC has the power to _ban_ a work. Seriously, they can do that? If I’m Joe Q. Storeowner (and I was in the UK) and I order some copies directly from Rockstar, and put up some huge ads saying that I’ve got Manhunt 2, the cops are going to come take them away? I can understand a de facto banning, like Manhunt 2 is likely to get: If it stays rated AO (by the ESRB, American video game raters) Nintendo won’t let it be on Wii, and most retailers wouldn’t publish it (if they found a platform, probally PC). But a full on Manhunt is _illegal?_ Color me surprised. [/QUOTE] It is unrated by the relevant authority, and therefore illegal to sell or import. Si ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhunt-2-banned/408708/69 "2007-06-21T22:36:20Z")
That’s just messed up. Next time I hear someone laugh at our Super Bowl boob fiasco I’ll point them in this direction. Marc ---
**Author:** ![LOUIS\_CYPHERE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a9a28c/32.png) [@LOUIS\_CYPHERE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LOUIS_CYPHERE)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhunt-2-banned/408708/70 "2007-06-21T23:19:31Z")
[QUOTE=Martini Enfield] No, the alcohol waits until after the guns are safely locked away, for the record. 🙂 [/QUOTE] Well, I should think so to!? BTW Is that your name, Martini, or was there a typo error? [QUOTE=Martini Enfield] but yes, I am a hunter, and I’m curious as to why you seem to feel the mere existence of a game in which you shoot deer or whatever should be seen as objectionable. [/QUOTE] Read my last post again, and ask yourself where exactly I stated that! ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhunt-2-banned/408708/71 "2007-06-22T00:16:43Z")
> [@si\_blakely](#): > > I’m not crying over Manhunt - it’s not art. It’s a good thing you’re here to tell us, Arbiter of Art. What else is not art? _The Register_? Should that get banned too? > [@si\_blakely](#): > > But the Government (with the power vested in it by the will of the people) has the right to define that there are limits to the freedom of publishers to produce books and films and games. Stalinist Russia and Nazi Germany, sure. I wasn’t aware that we were assuming mid-20th-century totalitarian governments for this argument, though. > [@si\_blakely](#): > > And to prevent cries of political interference, that body is independent. But a British parliament that believed in freedom and liberty could step in at any time and stop this nonsense. > [@si\_blakely](#): > > And they don’t actually ban very much, so for them to ban Manhunt 2 (and not Hostel/Kill Bill/Saw III) means that they had good reason. If I killed someone tomorrow, would it automatically be justified because I’ve never killed anyone before? [quote=Haunted] > [@Haunted](#): > > Meanwhile, I shall be on the lookout for the CCFC, for they are a real threat and truly scary. Are they, really? I’ve never even heard of this group. Do they have any power? > [@LOUIS CYPHERE](#): > > Well, I should think so to!? BTW Is that your name, Martini, or was there a typo error? His name refers to a rifle brand or something. ---
**Author:** ![Aioua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@Aioua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aioua)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhunt-2-banned/408708/72 "2007-06-22T00:31:20Z")
Well, it looks like Take-Two is pulling the game, for the time being, anyways. I’m still surprised that games and films can actually be banned in the UK. It’s incredible. > **[Take-Two shelves Manhunt 2](https://www.gamespot.com/articles/take-two-shelves-manhunt-2/1100-6172931/)** > > Plans to release game "temporarily suspended" while publisher continues exploring options. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhunt-2-banned/408708/73 "2007-06-22T00:35:56Z")
It’s not without precedent. Someone else mentioned another game that was censored in Britain 10 years ago, and Mark Ecko’s _The Art of Getting Over_ is banned in Australia. ---
**Author:** ![LOUIS\_CYPHERE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a9a28c/32.png) [@LOUIS\_CYPHERE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LOUIS_CYPHERE)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhunt-2-banned/408708/74 "2007-06-22T00:36:26Z")
[QUOTE=fetus] His name refers to a rifle brand or something. [/QUOTE] NO SHIT, SHERLOCK ??? Well, you live and you learn. Or, as is the case for some, you live and you die stupid. Which way is it going for you? 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhunt-2-banned/408708/75 "2007-06-22T00:39:18Z")
If you have a problem with me, take it up in the Pit. Otherwise, kindly take your attitude and shove it up your ass. If you can’t figure out how to act in Cafe Society, maybe the SDMB isn’t the place for you. ---
**Author:** ![Aioua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@Aioua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aioua)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhunt-2-banned/408708/76 "2007-06-22T00:42:14Z")
[QUOTE=fetus] It’s not without precedent. Someone else mentioned another game that was censored in Britain 10 years ago, and Mark Ecko’s _The Art of Getting Over_ is banned in Australia. [/QUOTE] I guess my american ignorance is shining though… I wonder if this is worth starting a GD over… do any of you brits or aussies want these laws changed? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhunt-2-banned/408708/77 "2007-06-22T00:52:50Z")
So wait, let me guess this straight. In the UK, videogames can be banned by a NON-governmental body, and the result of such a banning is that selling the game is _illegal_ and the government (in the form of police) can arrest you? If you can be arrested for selling a banned game, then the banning is absolutely a government issue, regardless of how “independent” the arbitration committee is in title. The MPAA can effectively “ban” a movie, but it is in no way illegal to sell copies of a “banned” movie. (In fact, labeling a DVD as the “unrated version” is actually a selling point.) ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhunt-2-banned/408708/78 "2007-06-22T00:54:01Z")
[QUOTE=si\_blakely] I’m not crying over Manhunt - it’s not art. [/QUOTE] You personally liking something or finding merit in it is not a prerequisite of it being art. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhunt-2-banned/408708/79 "2007-06-22T00:56:10Z")
[QUOTE=Aioua] I guess my american ignorance is shining though… I wonder if this is worth starting a GD over… do any of you brits or aussies want these laws changed? [/QUOTE] Additionally; I don’t know how the law is today, but back in the early 90s at least, it was illegal in Germany to show blood in videogames. It wasn’t enough to provide an _option_ to turn off the blood–the German government could actually have Acclaim’s ass for having any blood at all in Mortal Kombat. I seem to recall that the European versions of a lot of games went to market with sweat or (minimal) green alien-looking blood instead of the red stuff. ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhunt-2-banned/408708/80 "2007-06-22T04:06:37Z")
[QUOTE=LOUIS CYPHERE] NO SHIT, SHERLOCK ??? Well, you live and you learn. Or, as is the case for some, you live and you die stupid. Which way is it going for you? 🆒 [/QUOTE] Personal attacks are not acceptable in Cafe Society, **LOUIS CYPHERE** (or anywhere outside the Pit–and even there a limit exists). Please go back and re-read the Registration Agreement and the forum rules; if this keeps up, you may find your posting privileges revoked. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhunt-2-banned/408708.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhunt-2-banned/408708.md?page=5)