# Manifest Destiny is controversial **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 17, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manifest-destiny-is-controversial/638025 "2012-10-17T16:34:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manifest-destiny-is-controversial/638025/1 "2012-10-17T16:34:59Z")
GAP had to pull T-shirts with that – only that – written on them: > **[Yahoo Health: Advice and Reviews on Nutrition, Fitness, Sleep, Aging, Well...](https://health.yahoo.com/)** > > Yahoo Health is your trusted guide for women's and men's health, fitness memberships and equipment, nutritional food and supplements, healthy aging, restful sleep, and personal well being. I like to think I’m sensitive to people’s heritage, but this seems to be a case of what _Bloom County_ called “Offensensitivity”. On the other hand, maybe I should just be happy that people know enough history to be offended. > [@](#): > > While it might be nice to think that it’s some sort of inspirational mantra, maybe based on The Law of Attraction—Create your own life path! Manifest your destiny!—as McNairy and the PR department of Gap, Inc., have learned, “Manifest Destiny” actually refers to the mid-19th century mindset that white Americans had a divine obligation to claim as much of the continent as possible for themselves, slaughtering and oppressing native people in the process. How come nobody complained about this when a guy wrote a book entitled _Manifold Destiny_, about cooking meals on your car’s manifold as you traveled? (True!) [Manifold Destiny: The One! The Only! Guide to Cooking on Your Car Engine!: Maynard, Chris, Scheller, Bill: 9781416596233: Amazon.com: Books](http://www.amazon.com/Manifold-Destiny-Guide-Cooking-Engine/dp/1416596232) ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manifest-destiny-is-controversial/638025/2 "2012-10-18T15:00:08Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > GAP had to pull T-shirts with that – only that – written on them: > > [Yahoo Health: Advice and Reviews on Nutrition, Fitness, Sleep, Aging, Well Being and More](http://shine.yahoo.com/fashion/gap-pulls-manifest-destiny-t-shirt-gets-history-025900453.html) > > I like to think I’m sensitive to people’s heritage, but this seems to be a case of what _Bloom County_ called “Offensensitivity”. Uh, what? Of course it’s offensive, in roughly the same way a shirt saying “Yellow Peril” would be. Manifest Destiny not only refers to a process that involved killing people and taking their stuff, it explicitly was coined to provide the smug moral justification for such activity. Speaking of smug moral justification, maybe I should say it’s more like putting [Arbeit Macht Frei](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbeit_macht_frei) on a T-shirt. > [@CalMeacham](#): > > On the other hand, maybe I should just be happy that people know enough history to be offended. Well, the pinhead who made the shirt obviously does NOT know what it means – if he can be believed: [QUOTE=your link] “Unfortunately, the meaning of my ‘Manifest Destiny’ T shirt has been misconstrued and the sentiment behind it grossly misunderstood,” McNairy posted on Twitter on Tuesday, blatantly disregarding his “survival of the fittest” quip. “I first learned of Manifest Destiny in American History in Junior High School. To me it has always meant that one could set goals, work hard, and achieve their dreams. Having the opportunity to design for the Gap was the realization of one of my dreams. This phrase and they way I used it was in no way meant to be offensive or hurtful, and I apologize to those who might have interpreted it in that manner.” Dear Mark McNairy: The term “Manifest Destiny” does not mean what you think it means. (Also? Your junior high school history teacher is weeping right now.) [/QUOTE] Note to pinheads: might want to Wikipedia something you vaguely remember from high school before staking your image on it. Note to faceless megacorporations: might want to hire a fact-checker before staking your company’s image on the work of pinheads. But it may be more sinister than that: > [@](#): > > Adding fuel to the fire, the shirt’s designer, Mark McNairy, tweeted “MANIFEST DESTINY. SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST” last Friday in response to customer complaints. He quickly deleted his tweet, but not before a screengrab of it was widely circulated, and then he followed up—three days later—with an all-caps semi-apology. That implies he might have known exactly what Manifest Destiny means, and he’s smug about it. > [@CalMeacham](#): > > How come nobody complained about this when a guy wrote a book entitled _Manifold Destiny_, about cooking meals on your car’s manifold as you traveled? Labored puns are obviously more about stretching the language than about endorsing the philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manifest-destiny-is-controversial/638025/3 "2012-10-18T15:19:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Uh, what? Of course it’s offensive, in roughly the same way a shirt saying “Yellow Peril” would be. Manifest Destiny not only refers to a process that involved killing people and taking their stuff, it explicitly was coined to provide the smug moral justification for such activity. 1.) This is the first I’ve heard of people taking offense to it. When I learned of this in school it was as a philosophy and concept 2.) Actually, the framers of “Manifest Destiny” saw it as spreading the influence of Western Civ further westward. It was certainly used as justification for land-taking, etc., but your stsatement of it is pretty loaded itself, right down to the “smug” part. 3.) You could make all the same arguments about a T-shirt with “Colonization” on it, but I seriously doubt it would produce the same visceral response. So when did “Mamnifest Destiny” go from being a boring phrase you learned in sophomore history to a hot button code phrase? That’s a serious question – did someone write a book, song, or other piece of pop culture that made “Manifest Destiny” such a forbidden phrase? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manifest-destiny-is-controversial/638025/4 "2012-10-18T16:02:25Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > So when did “Mamnifest Destiny” go from being a boring phrase you learned in sophomore history to a hot button code phrase? That’s a serious question – did someone write a book, song, or other piece of pop culture that made “Manifest Destiny” such a forbidden phrase? Probably when a big retailer decided to slap it on a t-shirt as if it meant something like “Seize the Day.” I think we’re all agreed on what Manifest Destiny was and what it meant, so I don’t see the confusion here. It’s based on an accurate representation of what the words mean. If they put something like “White Man’s Burden” or “Civilize Africa” or “Be Imperialists” on t-shirts I think people would also complain. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manifest-destiny-is-controversial/638025/5 "2012-10-18T16:28:39Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > 1.) This is the first I’ve heard of people taking offense to it. When I learned of this in school it was as a philosophy and concept You must not know any Mexicans. Manifest Destiny was used as an explicit justification for the US taking half their country. [DESTINO MANIFIESTO ANGLOAMERICANO y su influencia destructiva en LA HISPANIDAD](http://eccechristianus.wordpress.com/2010/11/23/el-destino-manifiesto-cambio-la-historia-de-mexico-historia-religion-mexico/) “Anglo-American Manifest Destiny and its destructive influence on Hispanic identity.” [El Gigante de Siete Leguas](http://asiescuba.wordpress.com/2012/06/16/el-gigante-de-las-siete-leguas-agresiones-de-estados-unidos-contra-america-latina/) (The Giant with Seven-league Boots) prominently features Manifest Destiny in its attack on US policy in Latin America. Destino Manifiesto is a hot-button phrase for Latin Americans. > [@](#): > > 3.) You could make all the same arguments about a T-shirt with “Colonization” on it, but I seriously doubt it would produce the same visceral response. Not at all. As far as I know, “colonization” by itself was never used as a slogan to justify territorial expansion and conquest. Putting a slogan like that on a t-shirt was utterly idiotic. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manifest-destiny-is-controversial/638025/6 "2012-10-18T16:33:23Z")
Trying to think of what someone would have to put on a t-shirt that would offend me. I’m drawing a blank. Plenty of things I disagree with. Sometimes vehemently. But not offended. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manifest-destiny-is-controversial/638025/7 "2012-10-18T16:51:58Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Trying to think of what someone would have to put on a t-shirt that would offend me. I’m drawing a blank. Plenty of things I disagree with. Sometimes vehemently. But not offended. “Put the White back in the White House”? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manifest-destiny-is-controversial/638025/8 "2012-10-18T16:56:52Z")
It’s hard for me to believe that all of the administrators and marketers and artists at Gap somehow didn’t realize what a terrible idea this was. The question isn’t really “Is it offensive?” The real question is, “Will a significant number of people find this offensive?” The former is subjective, the latter is not really. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manifest-destiny-is-controversial/638025/9 "2012-10-18T17:13:14Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Trying to think of what someone would have to put on a t-shirt that would offend me. I’m drawing a blank. Plenty of things I disagree with. Sometimes vehemently. But not offended. You’re a law officer, no? How about [“Off the Pigs.”](http://www.spirit-of-metal.com/les%20goupes/P/Plutocracy/Off%20The%20Pigs/Off%20The%20Pigs.jpg) Or this one: [Vandalism: Beautiful as a Rock in a Cop’s Face.](http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51XQS2J32TL._SL500_AA280_.jpg) Admittedly, these are much more offensive than “Manifest Destiny” (and album covers instead of t-shirts), but I think there are some things that you would object to. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manifest-destiny-is-controversial/638025/10 "2012-10-18T17:18:11Z")
I still think if you asked random people off the street what manifest destiny means, you’d get something about american exceptionalism, “Go west, young man,” or the monroe doctrine. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manifest-destiny-is-controversial/638025/11 "2012-10-18T17:19:47Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > You must not know any Mexicans. Manifest Destiny was used as an explicit justification for the US taking half their country. > > [DESTINO MANIFIESTO ANGLOAMERICANO y su influencia destructiva en LA HISPANIDAD](http://eccechristianus.wordpress.com/2010/11/23/el-destino-manifiesto-cambio-la-historia-de-mexico-historia-religion-mexico/) > > “Anglo-American Manifest Destiny and its destructive influence on Hispanic identity.” > > [El Gigante de Siete Leguas](http://asiescuba.wordpress.com/2012/06/16/el-gigante-de-las-siete-leguas-agresiones-de-estados-unidos-contra-america-latina/) (The Giant with Seven-league Boots) prominently features Manifest Destiny in its attack on US policy in Latin America. > > Destino Manifiesto is a hot-button phrase for Latin Americans. > > Not at all. As far as I know, “colonization” by itself was never used as a slogan to justify territorial expansion and conquest. > Putting a slogan like that on a t-shirt was utterly idiotic. My question was was why the boring history phrase “Manifest Destiny” was poroducing such a rapid and exttreme response. In my day, it wouldn’t have excited people any more than “Copernican Revolution” would have. It seemed to me that someone or something has been stirring people up. The articles you link to explicitly use “Manifest Destiny” in this way. Is this only in Mexican sources? How loong has it been going on? Because I seriously dpoubt that if something like this were not taking place, people wouldn’t be objecting to the shirt so vociferously. “Colonization” describes perfectly a system of exploiting local people and resources for the enrichment of the founding power. It just doesn’t currently have the same Hot Button status. The question is: “Why not?” And just so that we’re clear – I’m not advocating “Manifest Destiny”, or saying that it wasn’t a cloak for the nefarious activity that people are protesting. I’m nwondering about the reason it has that effect. Saying “Manifest Destiny is evil – look at what they did in its name” doesn’t explain it. I agree that putting “Arbeit Macht Frei” on a T-shirt would be phenomenally stupid – but that’s because the phrase is famous and famously associated with atrocity. There are plenty of innocuous-sounding phrases I could put on a T-shirt that are more obscure, and wouldn’t cause an uproar. Until today, I’d have though “Manifest Destiny” was one of them. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manifest-destiny-is-controversial/638025/12 "2012-10-18T17:48:59Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > You must not know any Mexicans. Manifest Destiny was used as an explicit justification for the US taking half their country. Hell, they took _all_ of mine! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manifest-destiny-is-controversial/638025/13 "2012-10-18T18:01:03Z")
I’m surprised enough Americans retained the high school history class information to know what it meant and cause a stir about it. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manifest-destiny-is-controversial/638025/14 "2012-10-18T18:01:04Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > My question was was why the boring history phrase “Manifest Destiny” was poroducing such a rapid and exttreme response. In my day, it wouldn’t have excited people any more than “Copernican Revolution” would have. It seemed to me that someone or something has been stirring people up. My point is, while it may be a “boring history phrase” to you, it’s a hot button issue to Latin Americans. Given the large increase in the Hispanic population of the US since you went to school, I don’t think anything beside the phrase would be necessary to stir things up. > [@](#): > > The articles you link to explicitly use “Manifest Destiny” in this way. Is this only in Mexican sources? No. The second link was to a book published in Cuba last year. I’ve heard it used by anti-US interests in Panama. (Building the Panama Canal was viewed by some as an expression of Manifest Destiny.) I’m sure it would be an issue as well in the Central American countries that have been invaded/occupied by the US (or by American citizens like William Walker). > [@](#): > > How loong has it been going on? I would guess since the Mexican War at least. > [@](#): > > Because I seriously dpoubt that if something like this were not taking place, people wouldn’t be objecting to the shirt so vociferously. I think you’re just unaware of how this plays to the people who have been subjected to Manifest Destiny. > [@](#): > > “Colonization” describes perfectly a system of exploiting local people and resources for the enrichment of the founding power. It just doesn’t currently have the same Hot Button status. The question is: “Why not?” Because it hasn’t been used as a slogan to justify that policy. Manifest Destiny has. A parallel would be “White Man’s Burden,” not colonization. > [@](#): > > Until today, I’d have though “Manifest Destiny” was one of them. Happy to fight some ignorance on the subject.😉 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manifest-destiny-is-controversial/638025/15 "2012-10-18T18:14:03Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > The articles you link to explicitly use “Manifest Destiny” in this way. Is this only in Mexican sources? How loong has it been going on? Here’s a [Venezuelan site](http://www.aporrea.org/tiburon/a67199.html) accusing Obama of having a policy of Manifest Destiny. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manifest-destiny-is-controversial/638025/16 "2012-10-18T18:26:36Z")
I’m surprised there are people who aren’t aware of how controversial and offensive manifest destiny was and is. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manifest-destiny-is-controversial/638025/17 "2012-10-18T18:27:37Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I’m surprised there are people who aren’t aware of how controversial and offensive manifest destiny was and is. I am surprised to find that the phrase is offensive. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manifest-destiny-is-controversial/638025/18 "2012-10-18T18:30:29Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I am surprised to find that the phrase is offensive. > 🙂 The phrase is not offensive. Putting it on a T-shirt as if it’s something to be proud of is what offends people. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manifest-destiny-is-controversial/638025/19 "2012-10-18T18:36:20Z")
I’m pretty sure the idea of the shirt was to say, “I’m clearly awesome.” ie. my destiny is manifest (obvious). I doubt the designer was thinking, you know what will really resonate with people now in 2012? Expansionist slogans from the 1800s. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manifest-destiny-is-controversial/638025/20 "2012-10-18T18:38:18Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I am surprised to find that the phrase is offensive. > 🙂 > [@TriPolar](#): > > The phrase is not offensive. Putting it on a T-shirt as if it’s something to be proud of is what offends people. It’s not offensive to discuss it in a historical context. But the phrase has an implication that white Anglo-Americans were destined to take over North America (and maybe a lot more of the Americas), either by divine mandate or because of their innate intellectual and moral superiority to the brown people who were already there - something that the latter rather understandably resent. [Westward the Course of Empire Takes Its Way](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Emanuel_Leutze_-_Westward_the_Course_of_Empire_Takes_Its_Way_-_Smithsonian.jpg) [American Progress](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:American_progress.JPG) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manifest-destiny-is-controversial/638025.md?page=2)