# Manipulative movies, books, etc. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 8, 2009, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manipulative-movies-books-etc/480325 "2009-01-08T02:45:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manipulative-movies-books-etc/480325/1 "2009-01-08T02:45:52Z")
The thing that made me think of this thread was “E.T.” I stumbled across an old thread about the “E.T.” revival. I never liked E.T., partly because he was a disgusting alien, but also because the movie just felt like it was toying with my emotions. Look, cute aliens. Look, kids. The flying bicycle scene just felt like so much manufactured wonder. LOOK, they’re FLYING. I don’t know. Maybe I’m heartless. Are there any other movies or books or anything really, that you hate mainly because you can feel someone actively trying to tug at your heartstrings? ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manipulative-movies-books-etc/480325/2 "2009-01-08T02:48:57Z")
I could name lots and lots but I’ll let other people piddle with the contenders and just go ahead and name the champ: THE NOTEBOOK. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manipulative-movies-books-etc/480325/3 "2009-01-08T02:50:54Z")
This is my main complaint about my mostest unfavoritest American directors: Spielberg, Howard, Reiner. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manipulative-movies-books-etc/480325/4 "2009-01-08T02:53:13Z")
I feel like every movie is manipulative; the only question is whether you appreciate the way you’re being jerked around. ---
**Author:** ![Mahna\_Mahna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47c2d/32.png) [@Mahna\_Mahna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahna_Mahna)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manipulative-movies-books-etc/480325/5 "2009-01-08T03:08:50Z")
Spielberg is very fond of bludgeoning the audience over the head with Big Emotional Scenes. Take, for instance, the girl in the red coat in Schindler’s List… she’s memorably because her coat is the only spot of colour in a black and white scene. Which, of course, is mostly to make sure you remember her when you see that red coat in a pile of bodies later on… just in case you weren’t absolutely sure yet that the Nazis are heartless child-murdering bastards who kill little girls in red coats. The whole movie felt like emoting through paint-by-numbers. Feel sad NOW. _thwak_ Feel angry NOW. _thwak_ Feel hopeful NOW. _thwak_ No room for ambiguity, because Og forbid the audience make any decisions on their own… Nazis were Bad, Schindler was Good, war is Bad, and so on and so forth. (not that I’m disagreeing about any of the above, but I prefer to make these decisions for myself thankyouverymuch) ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manipulative-movies-books-etc/480325/6 "2009-01-08T03:33:12Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > I feel like every movie is manipulative; the only question is whether you appreciate the way you’re being jerked around. Absolutely. Critical favorites like John Ford, Alfred Hitchcock, and Ernst Lubitsch are just as manipulative as any other set of directors you could name. Certain people just like the results more. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manipulative-movies-books-etc/480325/7 "2009-01-08T03:37:48Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > I feel like every movie is manipulative; the only question is whether you appreciate the way you’re being jerked around. Fair enough. Adorable widdle kids really grate on me, which is part of why I really resent a lot of Spielberg’s movies. I loved the Jurassic Park movies, but I could have done without the smart talking, uber talented kids. ETA: Oh, and putting adult speak into the mouths of kids. I hate this. Like Drew Barrymore’s character going “Give me a break” and rolling her eyes, all world-weary in E.T. when she sees the alien. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manipulative-movies-books-etc/480325/8 "2009-01-08T03:43:28Z")
The one that really pissed me off (as I was crying my eyes out) was _Terms of Endearment_. ---
**Author:** ![kellner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c2a13f/32.png) [@kellner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellner)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manipulative-movies-books-etc/480325/9 "2009-01-08T03:55:25Z")
AI, were that device was played by a human actor. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manipulative-movies-books-etc/480325/10 "2009-01-08T04:23:36Z")
A few weeks back, the Space channel ran a Trek movie marathon and for the only time since seeing it in theater, I caught part of _Star Trek: Insurrection_. Heck, even Disney toons were rarely that determinedly morally unambiguous. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manipulative-movies-books-etc/480325/11 "2009-01-08T04:43:45Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > I feel like every movie is manipulative; the only question is whether you appreciate the way you’re being jerked around. Ditto. I’m moved by lots of art. It’s just a matter of whether or not I feel good about it afterward. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manipulative-movies-books-etc/480325/12 "2009-01-08T05:07:56Z")
I just watched Four Christmases the other day. The movie had no intention whatsoever of subtlety. ---
**Author:** ![SiXSwordS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@SiXSwordS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SiXSwordS)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manipulative-movies-books-etc/480325/13 "2009-01-08T18:31:19Z")
As for books, or rather, authors… Steinbeck could have used a few tips on subtlety. Do people still read the Red Pony? The ending of The Grapes of Wrath was a little heavy-handed too. As an author though, Ayn Rand may win the, “You will think what I want you to think and feel what I want you to feel” Award. ---
**Author:** ![Gordon\_Urquhart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/db5fbb/32.png) [@Gordon\_Urquhart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gordon_Urquhart)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manipulative-movies-books-etc/480325/14 "2009-01-08T19:42:18Z")
The end of James Cameron’s _Titanic_, in which a young Rose is reunited with her fellow passengers and the crew feels very manipulative to me. I’ll admit that I teared up in the movie theater when I saw it, but I saw a recent rebroadcast of _Titanic_ and it kind of turned me off. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manipulative-movies-books-etc/480325/15 "2009-01-08T19:47:23Z")
> [@Mahna\_Mahna](#): > > Spielberg is very fond of bludgeoning the audience over the head with Big Emotional Scenes. Take, for instance, the girl in the red coat in Schindler’s List… she’s memorably because her coat is the only spot of colour in a black and white scene. > > Which, of course, is mostly to make sure you remember her when you see that red coat in a pile of bodies later on… just in case you weren’t absolutely sure yet that the Nazis are heartless child-murdering bastards who kill little girls in red coats. > > The whole movie felt like emoting through paint-by-numbers. Feel sad NOW. _thwak_ Feel angry NOW. _thwak_ Feel hopeful NOW. _thwak_ > > No room for ambiguity, because Og forbid the audience make any decisions on their own… Nazis were Bad, Schindler was Good, war is Bad, and so on and so forth. (not that I’m disagreeing about any of the above, but I prefer to make these decisions for myself thankyouverymuch) To be fair, it is hard to add a lot of moral ambiguity to Nazi death camp guards. Ambiguity was not, shall we say, their long suit. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mahna\_Mahna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47c2d/32.png) [@Mahna\_Mahna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahna_Mahna)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manipulative-movies-books-etc/480325/16 "2009-01-08T19:59:25Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > To be fair, it is hard to add a lot of moral ambiguity to Nazi death camp guards. Ambiguity was not, shall we say, their long suit. 😃 True enough. But wouldn’t it make it even less necessary to bludgeon me over the head with wailing violin solos and little girls in red jackets, in that case? (I much prefer _The Pianist_ when it comes to Holocaust movies, because at least Polanski resisted the urge to get dragged into epic shlock by making the perfect heroes and dastardly villains) ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manipulative-movies-books-etc/480325/17 "2009-01-08T20:00:27Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > To be fair, it is hard to add a lot of moral ambiguity to Nazi death camp guards. Ambiguity was not, shall we say, their long suit. 😃 I think Spielberg was trying with the Ralph Fiennes character–trying to show a character who has evil, twisted beliefs and yet perhaps vestiges of humanity. It’s been a really long time since I’ve seen it, though.