# Manly Christians reject meek and feminine Church. Is modern Christianity feminizing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 31, 2006, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manly-christians-reject-meek-and-feminine-church-is-modern-christianity-feminizing/378574 "2006-10-31T14:38:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manly-christians-reject-meek-and-feminine-church-is-modern-christianity-feminizing/378574/1 "2006-10-31T14:38:11Z")
[Real Men Talk About God- A new Christian movement lets guys be guys.](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15488905/site/newsweek/) ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manly-christians-reject-meek-and-feminine-church-is-modern-christianity-feminizing/378574/2 "2006-10-31T14:43:35Z")
Posted too soon - New keyboard not the best. [Real Men Talk About God A new Christian movement lets guys be guys.](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15488905/site/newsweek/) Is Christianity in modernity really more feminine than masculine in terms of the way it asks us to behave, and the way it speaks to the average Christian man? > [@](#): > > Oct. 30, 2006 - This wasn’t your Daddy’s religious revival. Last Saturday morning, 200 Christian men gathered in a downtown warehouse in Nashville for a day-long spiritual extravaganza. Inside, strobe lights flashed, and tracks by the Killers thumped from speakers stacked on either side of a stage. Four large video screens showed clips of karate fights, car chases and Jackass-style stunts. Then the music lowered and Christian comedian Brad Stine appeared. With his rat-a-tat delivery and aggressive style, Stine quickly whipped the crowd into a chorus of “Amens!” “A lot of guys out there wouldn’t have the balls to be here,” he shouted. “Are you ready to be a man? Are you ready to kick ass? Are you ready to grab your sword and say, ‘OK family, I’m going to lead you?’ Buckle up. This is GodMen!” > [@](#): > > The group has three rules. First: only laymen are allowed as speakers, never pastors. “If a pastor says the wrong thing he can get fired,” Stine says. “A layman has nothing to lose.” Second: no one under 17 is admitted. “One of the biggest issues with men is their sexuality,” says Stine. “We are tired of Christianity sounding so candy-coated. If we can’t talk about real issues, what’s the point of the church?” And third: no women allowed. (This female reporter was allowed to observe the events while remaining largely out of sight from the crowd.) “We want to create an environment where we can talk to each other the way men really do,” Smith says, adding that existing men’s groups like the Promise Keepers—an evangelical ministry for men—often mimic the same church environment that turns some men away. ---
**Author:** ![Greenback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/2bfe46/32.png) [@Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greenback)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manly-christians-reject-meek-and-feminine-church-is-modern-christianity-feminizing/378574/3 "2006-10-31T22:10:09Z")
I’m not sure what to make of this. The description of the event seems to portray ‘real men’ as 14 year old boys on a sugar rush. I don’t have any use for these events but that is a personal opinion. If these events somehow make christian men feel like they have a place to worship, then hakuna matata. It’s too bad that _Godmen_ and others (_Wild at Heart_ comes to mind) can’t perceive men as anything other than beings who live only to experience the next adrenaline rush. The flip side is that it’s too bad that men feel that events like this are necessary because the of portrayal in the church that men should be pussies. Christ was neither. ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manly-christians-reject-meek-and-feminine-church-is-modern-christianity-feminizing/378574/4 "2006-11-01T10:05:40Z")
To my mind, unreconstructed machismo and ‘boys-only’ clubs don’t exactly lend themselves to humility, love of thy neighbour or contemplation of one’s place in the universe. Sounds like the cynical rebranding of Christianity to mop up an otherwise reluctant demographic. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manly-christians-reject-meek-and-feminine-church-is-modern-christianity-feminizing/378574/5 "2006-11-01T12:53:21Z")
I’m gobsmacked. I had to check the date to make sure it was not April 1. If I had a tea party with my dogs in my back yard and put a Bible on the table, could I call that a Christian gathering? Seriously, could anyone gainsay it? Organized religion made little sense to me when I woke up this morning; it makes even less sense now. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manly-christians-reject-meek-and-feminine-church-is-modern-christianity-feminizing/378574/6 "2006-11-01T18:22:14Z")
The first rule of Godmen is that you don’t talk about Godmen! ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manly-christians-reject-meek-and-feminine-church-is-modern-christianity-feminizing/378574/7 "2006-11-01T18:46:42Z")
Grab your sword and kick ass for Christ? Either they or I seriously misunderstand what Jesus taught. I could be the misunderstander, now, but I don’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tastes_of_chocolate/32/3232_2.png) [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tastes_of_Chocolate)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manly-christians-reject-meek-and-feminine-church-is-modern-christianity-feminizing/378574/8 "2006-11-01T21:52:35Z")
This reminds me of the men’s campfire/drumming sessions that were a big thing for a while. Go sit around a campfire and drum and talk about how real men do things. I think it’s time we took the “John Wayne as [Rooster Cogburn](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073636/)” stereotype out, and shot it. That’s no more a real snapshot of what real men are then Little House on the Prairie is a real snapshot of what real women are. The only part of the whole thing that makes sense is: > [@](#): > > If we can’t talk about real issues, what’s the point of the church? ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manly-christians-reject-meek-and-feminine-church-is-modern-christianity-feminizing/378574/9 "2006-11-01T22:21:41Z")
When I first heard there were guys going off into the woods, dancing around campfires, banging on drums, while naked, then bursting into tears, and occasionally bellowing “I LOVE you, maaan!”, I figured whoever told me about it was on some serious crack. But I was wrong… ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manly-christians-reject-meek-and-feminine-church-is-modern-christianity-feminizing/378574/10 "2006-11-01T22:43:39Z")
I’m wondering what will take the place of the ferns and flowers that are so emasculating. And they’re right that Jesus was pissed about the moneychangers, but in the end He did lay down His life rather than fight back. Turn the other cheek, cut off the hand that spites you… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manly-christians-reject-meek-and-feminine-church-is-modern-christianity-feminizing/378574/11 "2006-11-02T17:06:56Z")
As [a prophet?] once said, “there is nothing new under the sun”. This sounds like a particularly repellent degeneration of the Victorian vogue of ["muscular](http://www.mensnewsdaily.com/blog/2004/12/muscular-christianity.htm) [Christianity"](http://www.usask.ca/relst/jrpc/br-muscchrist.html). FWIW, American society not only survived the original version, it’s arguably benefitted immensely from it, and will doubtless weather this latest manifestation, although I’m not anticipating any cultural benefits this time around. ---
**Author:** ![elelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@elelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elelle)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manly-christians-reject-meek-and-feminine-church-is-modern-christianity-feminizing/378574/12 "2006-11-03T03:34:47Z")
From the OP link; > [@](#): > > When the GodMen band seized the stage again, they tore into an anthem called “Grow A Pair!”: “We’ve been beaten down/ Feminized by the culture crowd,” they sang. “No more nice guy, timid and ashamed/ We’ve had enough, cowboy up/ In the power of Jesus name/ Welcome to the battle/ A million men have got your back/ Jump up in the saddle/ Grab a sword, don’t be scared/ Be a man, grow a pair!” Said Tholstrup, as he surveyed the crowd: “If 200 men are feeling this, other men are feeling it too.” Which ought to provide enough testosterone for plenty of GodMen gatherings to come. Holy Huevos, Hehsuss! I always read Jesus’ teachings as being an antidote to cowboy/ sword tactics that have led humankind into sad waters. I suppose the wussy doe-eyed compassionate Jesus needs to be replaced with a crew-cut six-pack ab buff Messiah. Yeesh-hua! ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manly-christians-reject-meek-and-feminine-church-is-modern-christianity-feminizing/378574/13 "2006-11-03T04:02:08Z")
[QUOTE=elelle] From the OP link; Holy Huevos, Hehsuss! I always read Jesus’ teachings as being an antidote to cowboy/ sword tactics that have led humankind into sad waters. I suppose the wussy doe-eyed compassionate Jesus needs to be replaced with a crew-cut six-pack ab buff Messiah. Yeesh-hua! [/QUOTE] [Don’t you be dissin’ the buff Jesus!](http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid199/p4db2c60272fc1c4d58add056900e431b/f0b111eb.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![elelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@elelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elelle)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manly-christians-reject-meek-and-feminine-church-is-modern-christianity-feminizing/378574/14 "2006-11-03T04:50:27Z")
Thanks, Astro, I’m really all-afeared that fella is going to come and kick my ass, now, and everafter. But he din’t have a crew cut. What a wuss! Where exactly was that posted? Not that I want to taint the great persecuted columned halls of testosterone with a simple questioning presence… ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2006, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manly-christians-reject-meek-and-feminine-church-is-modern-christianity-feminizing/378574/15 "2006-11-04T22:46:32Z")
A look at [their website](http://www.godmen.org/about.htm) makes me think that they’re not as bad as the _Newsweek_ article makes them sound. Here are a couple of extracts: > [@](#): > > Who Are We? > GodMen is led by a group of Christian laymen (authors, speakers, teachers, and businessmen) who believe that the abundant life Jesus promised is available for men today. > These lay leaders dare to confront directly the forces that are decimating Christian men today forces such as: > > - Pornography: the result of good sexual desires going in the wrong direction. > - Fatherlessness: which leaves a huge hole in a man’s soul. > - False Piety: creating a caricature of ‘Gentle Jesus Meek and Mild’ which has ruined countless lives. > - Anti-Intellectualism: which has driven many thinking men from the fortress of faith. > - Isolation: the quest for spiritual self-sufficiency, which leaves men exposed to attack and ashamed of defeat > [@](#): > > The Bible describes and encourages a kind of rugged masculinity that is not the same kind of masculinity that is promoted in most church services and religious organizations. So when we tell Christian men that they are “fully authorized,” it’s our way of telling them that though the church doesn’t necessarily want them to become more assertive, bold, and confrontational in order to become redemptive forces for good in a world at war with truth and goodness, the God of the Bible does. Although I disagree with their idea of what is _feminine_, if they can help men deal in healthy ways with the issues they describe, more power to them – literally. Meanwhile, I think that many women would also derive benefit from women’s church groups that deal more openly with women’s issues and encourage them also to be more assertive and powerful. (That’s not gender specific.) > [@](#): > > **gigi** : I’m wondering what will take the place of the ferns and flowers that are so emasculating. Cattails, maybe? Interesting how flowers and ferns aren’t emasculating to male landscape architects and gardeners. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2006, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manly-christians-reject-meek-and-feminine-church-is-modern-christianity-feminizing/378574/16 "2006-11-04T23:00:59Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] Cattails, maybe? Interesting how flowers and ferns aren’t emasculating to male landscape architects and gardeners. 😉 [/QUOTE] Oh, there are all sorts of fussy, supposedly feminine things that “real” men are allowed to do as long as they’re getting paid for it…there’s a whole genre of DVD out there about it…