# Manned spacemission to Mars? Yeah, right. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 7, 2004, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manned-spacemission-to-mars-yeah-right/223164 "2004-01-07T06:06:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2004, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manned-spacemission-to-mars-yeah-right/223164/41 "2004-01-08T00:54:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TartPops \* > President **Shrub** How fucking clever. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2004, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manned-spacemission-to-mars-yeah-right/223164/42 "2004-01-08T01:53:29Z")
“Shrub” has been a nickname for George W. Bush since before he was Governor of Texas. Not really very clever, but it’s stuck. Much as I’d personally like to go to Mars, I’d like to wait until we can do it right – with a properly shielded ship with a rotating section and a plasma drive. First I’d like to spend a couple of decades getting back to the Moon, establishing a permanent presence there, exploring for volatiles, and mining material to be tossed up into orbit with mass drivers, to build some freaking huge stations in Lunar orbit and around the L5 points. What the hell else is money good for? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2004, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manned-spacemission-to-mars-yeah-right/223164/43 "2004-01-08T01:59:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WILLASS \* > \*\ ***The Beagle has landed!** > > Or not as the case may be… > > WTF? Why do the Americans get all the cool names and we choose all the shit ones? ‘The Beagle’, it really could not be less awe inspiring.\*\* Oh, stop whining. You get to have Charles Darwin on your currency. Try putting _any_ scientist, much less an “evil-lutionist” on US currency. The whole damned Bible Belt would probably secede from the Union. ---
**Author:** ![Windwalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/5e9695/32.png) [@Windwalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Windwalker)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2004, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manned-spacemission-to-mars-yeah-right/223164/44 "2004-01-08T14:17:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Miller \* > \*\*Oh, stop whining. You get to have Charles Darwin on your currency. Try putting _any_ scientist, much less an “evil-lutionist” on US currency. The whole damned Bible Belt would probably secede from the Union. \*\* So… your printing press or mine? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2004, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manned-spacemission-to-mars-yeah-right/223164/45 "2004-01-08T14:20:09Z")
> [@](#): > > Where? This part: > [@](#): > > 1. A mission to Mars is highly impractical. There is extreme danger to the crew, and estimated cost (a decade ago) would have been 450 billion dollars. > > 2. It is GW’s fault. That’s my reading of the OP, which seems to be more or less a petty and worthless partisan reaction. Not the worst we’ve seen here, but hardly wirth the wordage. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2004, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manned-spacemission-to-mars-yeah-right/223164/46 "2004-01-08T14:27:49Z")
Nah, the OP isn’t saying it’s GW’s fault. He’s saying that GW’s unwise taxcuts would make a Mars mission even more unlikely and expensive–which you can’t really deny. But extreme radiation in space and the distances between that planets are nobody’s fault, not even the Republicans’. ---
**Author:** ![\_possum\_stalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/b77776/32.png) [@\_possum\_stalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_possum_stalker)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2004, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manned-spacemission-to-mars-yeah-right/223164/47 "2004-01-08T14:41:45Z")
I wish GW would irradiating interplanetary space. Asshole. ---
**Author:** ![\_possum\_stalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/b77776/32.png) [@\_possum\_stalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_possum_stalker)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2004, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manned-spacemission-to-mars-yeah-right/223164/48 "2004-01-08T14:43:30Z")
“would **stop** irradiating…” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2004, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manned-spacemission-to-mars-yeah-right/223164/49 "2004-01-08T15:33:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TartPops \* > **Bricker** , well for all of the talk about how the whole Moon program was going to give us so many marvelous new tools/toys/gadgets etc, from that point it was a failure. Things like Velcro which have been touted as being invented for the Apollo program, actually came about in a completely unrelated way. The scientific experiments didn’t really give us all that much new information. > > They gave a tremendous sense of pride to the country, which is great. > > I’m not really sure that I can answer that one right now. I’ll have to think about it for a bit, if that’s okay. Take your time. And you might also consider what your reaction would be if you were to learn that there were, in fact, marvelous toys/gadgets/tools that may be traced directly to the Apollo program. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![TartPops](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c4cdca/32.png) [@TartPops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TartPops)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2004, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manned-spacemission-to-mars-yeah-right/223164/50 "2004-01-08T17:10:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*It may well be on many Best of 2003 lists, but I read it and found several factual errors, so I wouldn’t cite him as if he were an established authority on space flight. He’s a travel writer, not an aerospace engineer. \*\* What “factual errors?” It’s not like he just copied the book out of an encyclopedia. In fact, in the foreward, he states that he didn’t like textbooks because they didn’t tell him why stuff was the way it was, just that it was. So, he talked and asked questions of experts in the fields covered in the book, and many of them read proofs of the book so as to catch any errors Bryson made. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2004, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manned-spacemission-to-mars-yeah-right/223164/51 "2004-01-08T17:59:29Z")
So you’re previous points have been refuted and you’re holding onto this? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2004, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manned-spacemission-to-mars-yeah-right/223164/52 "2004-01-08T19:48:19Z")
I’m not saying that it’s not a useful book–I already praised it as an informative survey of the sciences, but as I said, he is not a scientist so he is merely regurgitating what he has been told and not all of it accurately. I’m no scientist either, but I caught errors in dates and numbers, not many but they are there. It’s a fine book, but treating it (or any single book) as infallible is an exercise in credulity. I don’t have a copy in front of me, so I can’t give you page numbers, but a survey of the readers’ reviews on Amazon might help you see what I mean. > [@](#): > > However, as a physicist I must criticise the accuracy of some of the material. Some of the physics discussed is either poorly explained, with Bryson missing the point as he attempts to rehash material he’s read elsewhere, or it’s simply wrong. The mistakes aren’t limited to the physics; other topics have errors too. As another reviewer points out, for example, controversial issues are presented as fact in the discussion of evolution. > [@](#): > > I am qualified to comment on the chemistry, physics and astrophysics sections and, unfortunately, they are almost perfunctory compared to the others, skating over just about everything at a high level. I feel the author understood his limitations - hardly surprisingly given the arcane nature of the subject matter - and backed off; there are many better individual books if you really want to know what relativity, quantum mechanics or high energy physics is about You keep missing the bit where I agree with you on the difficulties of sending a manned mission to Mars–I just think that claiming any statement on science from a pop science general survey as authoritative reveals a certain naivete. Instead of trying to defend this one, very general book, why don’t you read more books on astronomy and aeronautics so you can get a stronger background on space flight? With respect to **Grey** , Mars Direct is a multiple mission project that would cost far, far more than $20-50 billion. I work in DC, I know from cost overruns on simple projects, let alone the runaway costs of long-term exploration and colonization. It’s a worthy project, but the will and the finances have to be found. Look at the ISS, for example, for costs gone mad and flawed engineering. Think about how sound the engineering would have to be for a mission that will take 6 months in space just to get to Mars. The goal of getting off this rock and becoming a multiplanet species is one that must be achieved, but that will not happen until we assess the risks and the costs realistically and understand that real-life space travel is never going to be like Star Trek. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2004, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manned-spacemission-to-mars-yeah-right/223164/53 "2004-01-08T19:59:07Z")
Fair enough **gobear**. Though the focus of a Mars Direct derivative is a lot tighter than the 90 Study. That had 4 or 5 schedules with orbital, lunar, mars exploratory and mars landings all placed together. The opportunity to have feature creep is staggering when compared to the Zubrin approach (launch to Mars). It also has the advantage of developing HW able to be used on the moon, should we opt to prepare ourselves that way. Personally I like the idea of shooting for Mars and getting the Moon as a secondary benefit. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2004, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manned-spacemission-to-mars-yeah-right/223164/54 "2004-01-08T20:07:21Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m afraid Brutus has a point this time. Other than the one on his head? ---
**Author:** ![SpaceGhostofArrakis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@SpaceGhostofArrakis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpaceGhostofArrakis)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2004, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manned-spacemission-to-mars-yeah-right/223164/55 "2004-01-08T20:37:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ilsa\_Lund \* > \*\*Other than the one on his head? \*\* In all fairness, that does seem what the OP boils down to. Bias report: I think it’s a damn shame we haven’t sent a man to Mars, and people overestimate the difficulty. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2004, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manned-spacemission-to-mars-yeah-right/223164/56 "2004-01-08T21:21:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by 'possum stalker \* > \*\*I wish GW would irradiating interplanetary space. > > Asshole. \*\* 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2004, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manned-spacemission-to-mars-yeah-right/223164/57 "2004-01-08T23:48:02Z")
[hijack] See, and the thing about textbooks not “explaining why something is, but simply that it is” is unadulterated bullshit. The reason textbooks (science textbooks in particular) are so dry and complicated is that they tend to go into great, overwhelming detail about _precisely_ why something is the way it is, often down to the mathematical level. Simply because Bryson may not have understood the explanation does not mean the explanation isn’t there. If you’re disposed to ask the larger “why” questions (and who isn’t?,) I’d advise you to look toward philosophy and (not my bag, but others seem to like it) religion. As one of my favorite physics professors used to say, “There are an infinite number of levels of the question ‘why?’ In physics, we only seek to answer a few of them.” Bryson’s book is on my bedside table right now, unread, for precisely this reason. I know of Bryson’s tendency toward arrogance (the godawful “Lost Continent”), and I can well imagine that he might take the tone of “I’m better at this than the pros are,” an attitude that always gives me an unpleasant itch. I’ll read it eventually. I just have to get my skeptically raised eyebrow to climb down out of my hairline first. [/hijack] As for the OP, my opinion is that it won’t be for a while, but a manned mission to Mars (and hell, even colonies) is absolutely inevitable, barring a global Dark Age. ---
**Author:** ![Ferris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ferris/32/11573_2.png) [@Ferris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferris)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manned-spacemission-to-mars-yeah-right/223164/58 "2004-01-09T02:03:25Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **elucidator** :_ The only thing a person can do on Mars that a machine can’t is die. I’m sure neither you, or anyone else really believes that man is inferior to machine as an exploratory tool. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manned-spacemission-to-mars-yeah-right/223164/59 "2004-01-09T02:28:07Z")
Am I the first to point out to our oh-so-intelligently-brilliantly-smartly-brainy OP that any such Mars proposal would be set over the course of MANY years? Most likely beyond Bush’s presidency? ---
**Author:** ![TartPops](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c4cdca/32.png) [@TartPops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TartPops)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manned-spacemission-to-mars-yeah-right/223164/60 "2004-01-09T04:43:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ogre \* > **[ I know of Bryson’s tendency toward arrogance and I can well imagine that he might take the tone of “I’m better at this than the pros are,” an attitude that always gives me an unpleasant itch.** Well, boy will you be in for a surprise, as that is the exact opposite of the tone of the book. But you seem fatally prejudiced gaainst Bryson anyway, so oh well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manned-spacemission-to-mars-yeah-right/223164.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manned-spacemission-to-mars-yeah-right/223164.md?page=4)