# Manny Douche-mirez retires from baseball in shame. **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 9, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manny-douche-mirez-retires-from-baseball-in-shame/577748 "2011-04-09T02:46:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![PlanetCharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c37758/32.png) [@PlanetCharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlanetCharlie)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manny-douche-mirez-retires-from-baseball-in-shame/577748/41 "2011-04-11T20:45:08Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I watched a game in Toronto where Ramirez was not charged with a single error but cost the Red Sox at least four runs. > … > Baseball Reference says Manny was a career -12 WAR as a fielder - e.g. that he cost his teams 12 games over the course of his career that a backup outfielder wouldn’t have. I think that’s a really low guess. I don’t know much about ‘advanced’ baseball metrics, but isn’t that going to be a big part of the explanation? Not counting errors is going to help his WAR a hell of a lot (I don’t know the equation but it seems to follow). And “Obligatory ‘stats only tell so much’ statement.” ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manny-douche-mirez-retires-from-baseball-in-shame/577748/42 "2011-04-11T20:53:26Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I did want to argue against a specific point, which was that he quit on his team to force his way out of Boston, because quitting on your team is regarded as a special sin against the game. I don’t think the evidence supports that accusation. It’s not just a matter of his statistical contribution, but the perception on the team. Plenty of players have been felt to be assets when their strict on-field worth was only ordinary–it can work the other way too. As for the Hall of Fame, I say again: no player prominently linked to steroids is going in. It only takes 25%+1 of HoF voters to consistently decline to support a player’s candidacy to keep him out. Early returns suggest there is far, far more than that. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manny-douche-mirez-retires-from-baseball-in-shame/577748/43 "2011-04-11T22:12:21Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > It’s not just a matter of his statistical contribution, but the perception on the team. Plenty of players have been felt to be assets when their strict on-field worth was only ordinary–it can work the other way too. That’s a fair point, and I’m not going to say he was a great guy - just that when he “quit” to force his way out of Boston he was still hitting the ball. > [@](#): > > As for the Hall of Fame, I say again: no player prominently linked to steroids is going in. It only takes 25%+1 of HoF voters to consistently decline to support a player’s candidacy to keep him out. Early returns suggest there is far, far more than that. For now, I think that’s true. And I’d like it. But I don’t think it can last. I mean, they can delay inducted Bonds and Clemens and not vote them in with the near-unanimous totals that we once expected - I said at least once that Clemens was going to break Seaver’s record for highest voting percentage - but do you think they’ll really keep them out until they fall off the ballot? I’m not sure I can imagine it. For me the second-best scenario would have Bonds and Clemens missing their own inductions because they’re in prison, which is even more impossible. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manny-douche-mirez-retires-from-baseball-in-shame/577748/44 "2011-04-12T00:09:45Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I did want to argue against a specific point, which was that he quit on his team to force his way out of Boston, because quitting on your team is regarded as a special sin against the game. I don’t think the evidence supports that accusation. [What do you consider evidence?](http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3704917) > [@](#): > > According to multiple sources, Boston management had drafted an official letter of suspension for Ramirez, and delivered it to him at Fenway Park at around 11 p.m. on Friday night, July 25. For the second straight game, Ramirez had refused to play that evening, and the Red Sox lost 1-0 to the rival New York Yankees in front of a boisterous and sold-out home crowd. > The letter informed Ramirez that the suspension was to go into effect the next day, Saturday, July 26. It said Ramirez was being suspended without pay for being unwilling to play. Copies of the letter were also sent to Major League Baseball, the MLB Players Association and Ramirez’s agent, Scott Boras. > … > For weeks leading up to the July 31 trading deadline, Ramirez had been complaining of pain in his right knee. After he told Boston manager Terry Francona that his knee was too sore to play on July 25, the Red Sox’s front office ordered an MRI exam during that night’s game against the Yankees. > But on the way to the exam, Ramirez, according to sources, couldn’t remember which knee was sore. So the Red Sox had both of his knees examined. The MRIs revealed no damage in either. > … > Just after the All-Star break, Boston was swept in Anaheim, a series in which Ramirez reached base in eight of his 13 plate appearances. But late on Sunday afternoon, July 20, as the team was leaving Anaheim for Seattle, he initially refused to board the charter flight. Sources said he told the Red Sox that his knees were so sore, he couldn’t play for three weeks. > > He eventually boarded the flight and played in the first two games against the Mariners, reaching base in six of the 10 times he stepped to the plate, before telling Francona his right knee was too sore to play on July 23. > > On June 28, Ramirez shoved 64-year-old traveling secretary Jack McCormick to the ground inside Houston’s Minute Maid Park clubhouse after Ramirez was told McCormick might not be able to accommodate his 16-ticket request. > > On June 5, Ramirez and Kevin Youkilis briefly tangled in the Red Sox dugout, reportedly because Youkilis objected when Ramirez had been slow to come out of the dugout earlier in the game after Coco Crisp was hit by a pitch, and both benches emptied. So what sort of evidence did you consider? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manny-douche-mirez-retires-from-baseball-in-shame/577748.md?page=2)