Exactly, that’s what I was trying to say but you explained it better. I’m sure some of the new automatics are better, but they still can’t sense what gear the driver wants to be in for maximum power and/or efficiency.
Anybody know how reliable those CV transmissions are? NISSAN, AUDI, and certain M-B models use them. SATURN (VUE) had them-but the tranny turned out to be trouble=prone. I think a CVT is the ultimate in effiency-no discrete gears at all.
I’d buy one if i were confident in the things.
Could someone clarify in non-mechanic for us computer geeks.
In cheap automatics, I’ve had problems with the transmission wanting to hunt for gears, but anything that’s not an econobox (and even some recent econoboxes), this is pretty much eliminated. I’m still not sure of the difference:
Automatic:
Foot to the floor = downshift a lot (consumes gas)
Foot not as extremely close to the floor = downshift a bit.
Foot off the pedal = coast, gradual deceleration (saves gas)
Foot on the brake = decelerate rapidly (doesn’t consume gas, but wastes your kinetic energy, which is a fuel waster)
Manual:
Foot to the floor = acceleration limited to your selected gear
Foot off the pedal = not-as-gradual-as-automatic deceleration (wasted kinetic energy)
Foot on the clutch = coasting; call it the same as foot-off-gas on autos.
Foot on the brake = same as autos.
The chief differences I see are the ability to do engine braking in a manual (although by downshifting in an automatic you can do virtually the same), and being able to manually select the gear you want when it comes time to accelerate. When I drove manuals, this was in all cases the gear that would let me accelerate the quickest. It was automatic in the sense that I didn’t have to think about it; I just threw it into the correct gear. In my current automatic (when not worrying about gas prices), putting my foot to the floor does much the same thing.
Another trend I noticed in some a/t’s is if you ‘blip’ the gas peddle (blip is my term for just pressing it down very quickly then releasing it), the car will downshift to the lowest appropiate gear then stay there for a bit. This seems to work well in 2 situations, 1) when getting ready to pass, you can blip when you see the opportunity coming up, and 2) on downgrades, a blip will downshift for engine braking, and stay in that gear till the gas is pressed again.
That’s interesting – I always noticed that on cars with relatively weak engines, and have always attributed it to gear hunting, i.e., the transmission couldn’t figure out what gear it was supposed to be in. It always annoyed the heck out of me, but I never imagined there’d be a practical purpose. FWIW, none of my last three cars did this; the transmission always seems to be exactly where it should be, but then they’ve always been sufficiently powered that no pre-blipping is required for a passing maneuver. For going down a grade, yeah, I usually manually downshift if I’m not trying to have fun (pesky wife).
[Damn there being no nested quotes these days…]
It’s called “kick-down”. It’s a design feature of all automatics I’ve ever driven, so that includes 2000+ models, and shitboxes of 1970s vintage as well (and probably before that). In the true spirit of automatic gearboxes, the rationale is strictly along the keep-it-simple-stupid lines of “Want to go faster? Put your foot down.” Fair enough. The thing with kick-down is that a novice or disinterested driver can just press harder on the gas and the car will respond by kicking down for more acceleration if necessary. The cool thing with it is that the rest of us can consciously adjust the pressure on the throttle to facilitate gear changes as we like. I’m not a huge fan of automatics, but they have good points, and one of those is that it’s quite possible to exert a fair bit of “manual” control over one - often without even thinking.
No, I get that. It’s the part about it staying kicked down (what kanicbird called blipping) that I don’t see. I can easily force my car to stay kicked down for a reasonable amount of time without meaningful acceleration, but I’ve got to maintain pedal contact.
Yes blipping is different then what TheLoadedDog mentioned, and is sort of a newer twist to make a/t’s more responsive. I’d say it came about as A/T’s started to come out with ‘manumatic’ modes and ‘sports’ modes on non-luxury models.
In the old days blipping would cause the downshift, but if you put your foot back on the gas to normal cruse speed it would upshift back pretty quick. This is not the case in a/t’s that accept ‘blipping’. When you blip, you will downshift and the car will stay in the lower gear for quite some time, even when going back to cruising speed after blipping, perhaps continuously in the case of going downhill with your foot off the gas. I’m not sure what takes it out of this blipped downshift mode.
Aah, OK. I don’t remember experiencing this. I’ll keep an eye out for it (I’m currently driving an automatic). I’ve always found the system will revert to a higher gear as soon as the lower one is no longer needed. Maybe I don’t remember this happening because usually when I kick down an auto box, I’m doing something like passing and I’m leaning heavily on the gas for a while. I’ll do some blipping-then-coasting experiments later today. It’s got me curious now.
You could, however, chalk it up to the automatic trannies being tuned to specifically do well in the EPA test.
Which if an auto company did, and got caught, well let’s just say you would not want to be the guy that was responsible.
Honda built some cars that were supposed to be OBDII compliant. In fact they did not detect misfire. The state of California caught them. I recall the newspaper article about this case said that the state was asking for a fine of 150 million dollars, plus compensation to the car owners.
That was just one state, not the feds.
So, just how bad do you want to cheat? 
FWIW, I’m planning on buying a new Nissan in the next week or so (my 12 year old Camry has cost me $1500 this month and, though it’s never given me a problem before, I think it’s time for an amicable separation). I chatted with my mechanic, who said that his “transmission guy” tells him CVT is suited only to golf carts and the all-electrics that will come out in a few years, and that the current CVT in gas engines is essentially a beta test. I’ve talked to others who disagree. I see the logic in both arguments. It’s a bit frustrating. I’m actually using the uncertainty to help persuade me toward the Z350. 
OK, I’ll jump in here.
Buy the Z. No reason other than it it is way cooler than any model with a CVT.
Seriously I think that CVTs are in beta II tests. Personally I would not be rushing to buy one.
Wait, when I say coast I mean for example, when approaching a junction where I need to stop in town, I’m in maybe fourth gear, I just let the car roll on with my foot completely off the accelerator, only pushing the clutch and brake when the car judders before stalling. In this case, I’m not asking the car to put any power to the wheels, is it using fuel?
Here is your answer I’m not going to type it all over again. 
I found all kinds of referencing to blipping for manuals – I never knew what that was called; it just seemed obvious to use the accelerator to match the new tranny speed. I also see that cars that have manual-automatics automatically blip the accelerator when downshifting. For the life of me, I couldn’t find any references to blipping in order to force the transmission into a lower gear and staying there, even in the extensive technical documentation database that I have available (that is automotive specific). The accepted term among our powertrain guys, though, is “blipping,” which is the real surprise to me. Eh, it shouldn’t be any more surprising than body guys talking about lion’s feet and shotguns, I guess.
FWIW, I’ve now made a determined test in my particular car: when I force my auto transmission to downshift due to a blip, and then remove my foot, it immediately shifts back up into the current gear. If I hold the accelerator at a certain point, though, it will stay downshifted with very little acceleration (but it’s there, so you don’t want to be tailgating waiting to pass). I little more gas will throw the torque into it and off you go. But… throw the pedal to the floor and it’s drop another gear and take off like a rocket, so maybe I have too many gears or too much torque or too quick a transmission for blipping to be any good (275 ft-lb, 275 hp, 4-speed [only? grumble]).
Whether you’re doing this or coasting with the clutch down, you’re using more fuel than if you actually braked at the correct time - in the latter situation, most modern engines figure out what’s going on and cut the fuel supply.
What’s the correct time? My sister drives with the power on, shifting down through the gears all the way to the stop line at traffic lights, I simply lift off the accelerator and then brake and clutch when I need to come to a stop.