# Manufactures now include batteries with almost zero useable life. Says so in the manual. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 23, 2015, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manufactures-now-include-batteries-with-almost-zero-useable-life-says-so-in-the-manual/710715 "2015-01-23T21:23:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manufactures-now-include-batteries-with-almost-zero-useable-life-says-so-in-the-manual/710715/1 "2015-01-23T21:23:01Z")
Well, at least they admit it in the manual.:rolleyes: To save 50 cents on a two hundred buck item they’ve found a way to manufacturer batteries with almost no useable life. This a new one for me. The supplied batteries with most electronics are generic brands. But they easily last a month or two. Sometimes even longer. The batteries in this Vocal Trainer failed after less than an hour. Just like the manual promised. :smack: The question is why would they manufacture batteries like this? There are so many cheap generics to buy in bulk for manufacturing. It boggles the mind that someone designed a battery with only a few hours of life. The AC power supply is a $25 option that I have to special order. This company cut every corner didn’t they? Quote from Roland’s User manual. Roland sells keyboards,amps, all types of musical gear. I used to think they were quality. I’m seriously reconsidering whether to buy their Dr Boss drum machine. Its probably just as cheaply thrown together. > [@](#): > > The life of the supplied batteries may be limited, > since it’s primary purpose was to enable testing. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manufactures-now-include-batteries-with-almost-zero-useable-life-says-so-in-the-manual/710715/2 "2015-01-23T21:26:56Z")
So just pretend the manual said “Batteries not included” which has been common for decades. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manufactures-now-include-batteries-with-almost-zero-useable-life-says-so-in-the-manual/710715/3 "2015-01-23T21:31:33Z")
You’d be surprised. I’ve bought several gadgets recently that came with generic batteries. They are still operating fine. I’m just flummoxed that someone actually said, lets reduce the chemicals and make a battery with just a couple hours use. Just long enough to test the product. Batteries are so cheap anyhow. They are literally manufactured by the millions. To spend R&D money and setup a special factory line for a test battery seems nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manufactures-now-include-batteries-with-almost-zero-useable-life-says-so-in-the-manual/710715/4 "2015-01-23T21:37:59Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The batteries in this Vocal Trainer failed after less than an hour. Just like the manual promised. I hadn’t even heard of Vocal Trainers before this thread (ignorance fought!) and still don’t know much about them, but could it be that “The life of the supplied batteries may be limited, since it’s [sic] primary purpose was to enable testing” means, not that the included batteries _started out with_ no usable life, but that there’s no guarantee as to how much life they have left in them once you buy the item, because of either the manufacturer or potential customers using it to test it out, or even just because of how long it’s sat on the shelf? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manufactures-now-include-batteries-with-almost-zero-useable-life-says-so-in-the-manual/710715/5 "2015-01-23T21:42:28Z")
I was very surprised to learn that there are categories of military batteries specifically manufactured to have long storage lives\* but not necessarily long operating lives. I believe they’re intended to power guidance systems for missiles and the like. You want to be sure that they will run after sitting around unused for years, but, since they’re going to explode immediately anyway, you don’t care if they last beyond a few minutes. \*and storage and/or use over a huge ranges of temperatures, at that Some examples: > **[ASB Group](https://www.army-technology.com/contractors/electrical/asb-group/)** > > ASB-Group is a specialist in the research, design and manufacture of thermal batteries, and a European market-leader. Due to their… ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manufactures-now-include-batteries-with-almost-zero-useable-life-says-so-in-the-manual/710715/6 "2015-01-23T21:43:16Z")
Maybe they included CYA wording in case it sat on the shelf awhile. Or maybe the manual’s wording is weird because English isn’t their first language? It just struck me odd the way they said the batteries were intended for testing. Like somebody actually manufactured a limited life test battery. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manufactures-now-include-batteries-with-almost-zero-useable-life-says-so-in-the-manual/710715/7 "2015-01-23T21:47:28Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The question is why would they manufacture batteries like this? > [@aceplace57](#): > > The AC power supply is a $25 option that I have to special order. I think you’ve answered your own question. By including “batteries” they increase the chance you’ll buy the product. Then when you’ve bought the product and found out the batteries are crap, you’ll buy another product to fix the problem. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manufactures-now-include-batteries-with-almost-zero-useable-life-says-so-in-the-manual/710715/8 "2015-01-23T21:52:59Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I hadn’t even heard of Vocal Trainers before this thread (ignorance fought!) and still don’t know much about them, but could it be that “The life of the supplied batteries may be limited, > since it’s [sic] primary purpose was to enable testing” means, not that the included batteries _started out with_ no usable life, but that there’s no guarantee as to how much life they have left in them once you buy the item, because of either the manufacturer or potential customers using it to test it out, or even just because of how long it’s sat on the shelf? This is the first Vocal Trainer that I’ve seen. My teacher recommended it. It has warm up exercises, scales programmed in and a tuner that indicates if the voice is on pitch. 10 songs can be recorded and saved in memory. A student uses it to learn the song and stay on pitch. The trainer is a substitute for what my teacher does during my lesson. She plays warm ups and scales and has me work on my song. But thats only an hour a week. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manufactures-now-include-batteries-with-almost-zero-useable-life-says-so-in-the-manual/710715/9 "2015-01-23T22:14:59Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Maybe they included CYA wording in case it sat on the shelf awhile. Or maybe the manual’s wording is weird because English isn’t their first language? > > It just struck me odd the way they said the batteries were intended for testing. Like somebody actually manufactured a limited life test battery. For fuck sake, is that honestly how you imagine it works? More likely what happens is that batteries are tested after they are manufactured and the ones that fail the testing within certain parameters are used for different purposes such as being shipped with cheap electronics. It’s actually a great use for defective products that still have a little utility. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manufactures-now-include-batteries-with-almost-zero-useable-life-says-so-in-the-manual/710715/10 "2015-01-23T22:23:25Z")
Thinking about this some more, it also allows China to effectively ship the toxic waste to us. The crappy battery will be disposed of in the US. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2015, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manufactures-now-include-batteries-with-almost-zero-useable-life-says-so-in-the-manual/710715/11 "2015-01-24T01:27:14Z")
sounds like they include the old-style carbon-zinc “dry cell” batteries. these things can’t deliver any real amount of current, and fall on their faces with most modern electronics. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2015, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manufactures-now-include-batteries-with-almost-zero-useable-life-says-so-in-the-manual/710715/12 "2015-01-24T01:44:33Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Thinking about this some more, it also allows China to effectively ship the toxic waste to us. The crappy battery will be disposed of in the US. I would be surprised if China gives a rat’s ass about the environment. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2015, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manufactures-now-include-batteries-with-almost-zero-useable-life-says-so-in-the-manual/710715/13 "2015-01-24T10:48:23Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The life of the supplied batteries may be limited, > since it’s primary purpose was to enable testing. They also misspelled “its”. ---
**Author:** ![dba\_Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@dba\_Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dba_Fred)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manufactures-now-include-batteries-with-almost-zero-useable-life-says-so-in-the-manual/710715/14 "2015-01-25T15:27:42Z")
Because their grammar/spell-checker was powered by their batteries? If so, their test battery failed the test. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2015, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manufactures-now-include-batteries-with-almost-zero-useable-life-says-so-in-the-manual/710715/15 "2015-01-25T16:03:31Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > For fuck sake, is that honestly how you imagine it works? > > More likely what happens is that batteries are tested after they are manufactured and the ones that fail the testing within certain parameters are used for different purposes such as being shipped with cheap electronics. It’s actually a great use for defective products that still have a little utility. That actually makes sense, so thanks. (I am not the OP but had the same question). ---
**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2015, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manufactures-now-include-batteries-with-almost-zero-useable-life-says-so-in-the-manual/710715/16 "2015-01-25T16:08:56Z")
I think **jz78817** got it. From time to time when I open a new gadget I encounter my good old friend the “[Hi-Watt](https://www.google.com/search?q=hi+watt+battery&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=pRTFVJXGCPeZsQTv_oFA&ved=0CCsQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=1236)” carbon zinc battery. These are the crappiest batteries made, and they last a very short time. I remember seeing them in gadgets in the 80s, and I saw them in a gadget last week. I never got worked up about it. I always figure it’s a plus when my device comes with crappy batteries for the remote. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2015, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manufactures-now-include-batteries-with-almost-zero-useable-life-says-so-in-the-manual/710715/17 "2015-01-25T16:15:40Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Thinking about this some more, it also allows China to effectively ship the toxic waste to us. The crappy battery will be disposed of in the US. > > > [@running\_coach](#): > > > > I would be surprised if China gives a rat’s ass about the environment. Well, ours, yeah. Rumor has it they’re starting to be a bit concerned about their own. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manufactures-now-include-batteries-with-almost-zero-useable-life-says-so-in-the-manual/710715/18 "2015-01-25T16:25:53Z")
> [@minor7flat5](#): > > I think **jz78817** got it. > > From time to time when I open a new gadget I encounter my good old friend the “[Hi-Watt](https://www.google.com/search?q=hi+watt+battery&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=pRTFVJXGCPeZsQTv_oFA&ved=0CCsQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=1236)” carbon zinc battery. These are the crappiest batteries made, and they last a very short time. > I remember seeing them in gadgets in the 80s, and I saw them in a gadget last week. > > I never got worked up about it. I always figure it’s a plus when my device comes with crappy batteries for the remote. if they say something like “heavy duty” or “extra heavy duty” they’re carbon-zinc. Of course, if it’s a real cheap device there’s no telling if they’re carbon zinc but labeled “alkaline.” What’s really bad was the time I bought a plate amplifier (for a listening room subwoofer) for work, and the batteries included with the remote were hilarious. The label was a knock-off of Duracell, but the cells were proudly labeled “EXERY NEAVY DUTY.” ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2015, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manufactures-now-include-batteries-with-almost-zero-useable-life-says-so-in-the-manual/710715/19 "2015-01-25T23:50:06Z")
I really don’t understand the complaint here. 1. Batteries don’t last forever. So even if they bought the best battery ever, they can’t guarantee how much power it has when you get it. 2. If, as stated, the batteries are installed and used as part of quality assurance, then that further reduces how much is left when received. 3. Manufacturers mark up everything they sell. Industries vary, but it wouldn’t be unusual to see the price double between the manufacturer and the wholesaler and double again between the wholesaler and the retailer. So if the manufacturer saved $0.50, you saved $2.00. I hate it when companies save me money. Let’s move this to the pit! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manufactures-now-include-batteries-with-almost-zero-useable-life-says-so-in-the-manual/710715/20 "2015-01-26T00:29:14Z")
I wasn’t upset. Just a bit amused that Roland acknowledged using batteries that barely had enough life to test the device. I’ve often been pleasantly surprised how long generic batteries last. My dvd player’s remote came with batteries. They lasted for quite awhile. I think over a year IIRC. I was quite pleased. Customer service is really what this thread is about. It’s the small things that can leave a lasting impression in a customer’s mind. I might buy another electronic device from Roland. But I’ll look around first for other brands. I prefer a bit better level of care and design in products that I buy.