# Many university students don't want "discussion;" they want compliance. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 12, 2015, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/many-university-students-dont-want-discussion-they-want-compliance/737342 "2015-11-12T00:42:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/many-university-students-dont-want-discussion-they-want-compliance/737342/81 "2015-11-17T01:10:41Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You mean like asking for a college President’s resignation? Yes, [exactly like that](http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2015/01/unc-system-president-tom-ross-forced-to-resign-friday). ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/many-university-students-dont-want-discussion-they-want-compliance/737342/82 "2015-11-17T03:48:08Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Yes, yes, we’ll contact our lawyers now. You pop into every thread with the same tired refrain. So what? You don’t control these boards. And it seems like free speech needs advocates especially today in the face of modern liberal attempts at thought and speech control. Sorry if exercising a fundamental right triggers you. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/many-university-students-dont-want-discussion-they-want-compliance/737342/83 "2015-11-17T03:59:34Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > So what? You don’t control these boards. And it seems like free speech needs advocates especially today in the face of modern liberal attempts at thought and speech control. Free speech needs advocates, but not because teenagers and early-20-somethingers don’t have a good handle on it yet. Free speech needs advocates because folks in power make backroom deals to control what speech gets heard, and to shut down folks they don’t like. When you find yourself yelling at kids to get off your lawn, you may ask whether you’re on the side of the angels. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/many-university-students-dont-want-discussion-they-want-compliance/737342/84 "2015-11-17T13:56:51Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > A university interested in giving a wide range of students the best possible environment in which to conduct their studies will consider whether certain on-campus activities interfere with studies. If the activities interfere, they’ll ask whether allowing these activities serves some other purpose. If it doesn’t, they’ll consider getting rid of those activities. I was just wondering why you consider the[national hand-wringing](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18864275&postcount=6)over Halloween costumes to be that much more significant than breaking into school libraries and screaming at students who are trying to learn. I notice you don’t start any threads about how rightist movements are helping make the world a better place, even though you apparently believe conservatives should do so about leftist causes. Perhaps you could follow your own advice. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/many-university-students-dont-want-discussion-they-want-compliance/737342/85 "2015-11-17T15:47:53Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I was just wondering why you consider the[national hand-wringing](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18864275&postcount=6)over Halloween costumes to be that much more significant than breaking into school libraries and screaming at students who are trying to learn. Because people aren’t getting disciplined over Halloween costumes, whereas they are getting disciplined over protesting in the library. HA! I BET YOU THOUGHT YOU CAUGHT ME IN HYPOCRISY! > [@](#): > > I notice you don’t start any threads about how rightist movements are helping make the world a better place, even though you apparently believe conservatives should do so about leftist causes. Perhaps you could follow your own advice. OOH, BURN! YOU CAUGHT ME IN HYPOCRISY! Except you didn’t, **because I’m also not starting threads over how rightist movements are making the world a worse place.** My advice is for people to be consistent in their behavior. For example, I condemn leftist and rightist students who interfere with a learning environment. I’m consistent. You? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/many-university-students-dont-want-discussion-they-want-compliance/737342/86 "2015-11-17T16:11:27Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Because people aren’t getting disciplined over Halloween costumes, whereas they are getting disciplined over protesting in the library. So what? Shouldn’t you be getting more outraged over BLM activists being far more directly disruptive than frat boys at a Halloween party? Instead, there is lots of handwaving and attempts to change the subject. > [@](#): > > For example, I condemn leftist and rightist students who interfere with a learning environment. I’m consistent. No, actually you’re not. You dismiss and try to deflect criticism of leftwingers who are being far more disruptive than Halloween costumes. _:shrugs:_ I suspect the caps mean you recognize this on some level. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/many-university-students-dont-want-discussion-they-want-compliance/737342/87 "2015-11-17T16:26:33Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So what? Shouldn’t you be getting more outraged over BLM activists being far more directly disruptive than frat boys at a Halloween party? Of course not. The BLM activists were at least attempting to make things better. They were still in the wrong, but the relevant differences are in their favor. > [@](#): > > _:shrugs:_ I suspect the caps mean you recognize this on some level. Cool. I suspect your shrug means you’re admitting defeat. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/many-university-students-dont-want-discussion-they-want-compliance/737342/88 "2015-11-17T17:58:00Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > What did society expect would happen when grading curves turn failing grades into A’s and students are told how awesome they are. I kind of suspect it may have something to do with the tens of thousands of dollars of student debt, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/many-university-students-dont-want-discussion-they-want-compliance/737342/89 "2015-11-17T19:09:43Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Of course not. The BLM activists were at least attempting to make things better. So screaming “Fuck you you filthy white fucks” at students who are trying to study is an attempt to make things better? But wearing a Halloween costume is an unconscionable disruption of the learning environment. Gotcha. Don’t ever change, **LHoD** - this place would lose a good deal of its entertainment value. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/many-university-students-dont-want-discussion-they-want-compliance/737342/90 "2015-11-17T20:10:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So screaming “Fuck you you filthy white fucks” at students who are trying to study is an attempt to make things better? But wearing a Halloween costume is an unconscionable disruption of the learning environment. Gotcha. I’m deeply skeptical of specific claims made in Dartmouth’s conservative rag. Nevertheless, the screamers–yes. They were trying to make things better, in the sort of foolish and stupid way that I wish were limited to undergrads but sadly is reflected in political candidates like Donald “Rapists and Drug Dealers” Trump. The fact that they were trying to make things better doesn’t mean they were successful, or that I approve of them. > [@](#): > > Don’t ever change, **LHoD** - this place would lose a good deal of its entertainment value. My general thoughts about those who giggle at other’s politics are less than fully respectful, so they don’t belong here. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/many-university-students-dont-want-discussion-they-want-compliance/737342/91 "2015-11-17T21:24:31Z")
If you want a ‘hostile learning environment’, try getting a degree in literature at Berkeley as an open conservative. Or try running a conservative student group, or inviting a conservative to speak on your campus. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/many-university-students-dont-want-discussion-they-want-compliance/737342/92 "2015-11-17T22:19:12Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’m deeply skeptical of specific claims made in Dartmouth’s conservative rag. Wait, what claim(s) after you doubting? Surely you accept the evidence on the video, correct? > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Nevertheless, the screamers–yes. They were trying to make things better, in the sort of foolish and stupid way that I wish were limited to undergrads but sadly is reflected in political candidates like Donald “Rapists and Drug Dealers” Trump. The fact that they were trying to make things better doesn’t mean they were successful, or that I approve of them. And they’re only “trying to make things better” if you accept their definition of better. Which would open the door for all sorts of efforts. The kids i the library isn’t anyone should yd defend o excuse away. The kids are self-important douchebags. Period. Because sometimes ,things really are the cut and dry. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/many-university-students-dont-want-discussion-they-want-compliance/737342/93 "2015-11-18T00:30:27Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I kind of suspect it may have something to do with the tens of thousands of dollars of student debt, actually. well having worked my way through school I’m inclined to give their behavior a thumbs down. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/many-university-students-dont-want-discussion-they-want-compliance/737342/94 "2015-11-18T01:00:40Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Because people aren’t getting disciplined over Halloween costumes, whereas they are getting disciplined over protesting in the library. HA! I BET YOU THOUGHT YOU CAUGHT ME IN HYPOCRISY! > > OOH, BURN! YOU CAUGHT ME IN HYPOCRISY! > > Except you didn’t, **because I’m also not starting threads over how rightist movements are making the world a worse place.** My advice is for people to be consistent in their behavior. For example, I condemn leftist and rightist students who interfere with a learning environment. I’m consistent. > > You? You know why people aren’t being disciplined for Hallowedn costumes? It’s because we don’t live in a leftist hellhole yet. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/many-university-students-dont-want-discussion-they-want-compliance/737342/95 "2015-11-18T01:07:18Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You know why people aren’t being disciplined for Hallowedn costumes? It’s because we don’t live in a leftist hellhole yet. A rightist hellhole, on the other hand… ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/many-university-students-dont-want-discussion-they-want-compliance/737342/96 "2015-11-18T01:08:23Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > The kids i the library isn’t anyone should yd defend o excuse away. The kids are self-important douchebags. Period. Because sometimes ,things really are the cut and dry. It’s a good thing I’m not defending it, then. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/many-university-students-dont-want-discussion-they-want-compliance/737342/97 "2015-11-18T01:16:37Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Does anyone else sense that protesters on college campuses (and frankly, elsewhere as well) used to state that they wanted dialogue and debate about topics…but somewhere along the way, this was dropped and now they simply require 100% compliance with their demands at once, no debate, no discussion? Yes. I’ve also noticed that in many places, including my marriage and this discussion board. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/many-university-students-dont-want-discussion-they-want-compliance/737342/98 "2015-11-18T02:01:58Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > A rightist hellhole, on the other hand… An environment we don’t have to worry about when even the Democratic president thinks liberal thought police has jumped the shark. [Obama calls out liberal “dogmatism” on college campuses | Vox](http://www.vox.com/2015/11/17/9750654/obama-missouri-yale-political-correctness) ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/many-university-students-dont-want-discussion-they-want-compliance/737342/99 "2015-11-20T02:22:08Z")
More douchebags at it, now at [Princeton](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2015/11/18/princeton-protesters-occupy-presidents-office-demand-racist-woodrow-wilsons-name-be-removed/). At least the had there seems to have a little more backbone than other Deans. Here’s an idea: “Don’t like our university, go someplace else.” ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/many-university-students-dont-want-discussion-they-want-compliance/737342/100 "2015-11-20T02:25:21Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > More douchebags at it, now at [Princeton](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2015/11/18/princeton-protesters-occupy-presidents-office-demand-racist-woodrow-wilsons-name-be-removed/). > > At least the had there seems to have a little more backbone than other Deans. Here’s an idea: “Don’t like our university, go someplace else.” Bringing back segregation starting in the Northern Ivy Leagues. Oh the irony. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/many-university-students-dont-want-discussion-they-want-compliance/737342.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/many-university-students-dont-want-discussion-they-want-compliance/737342.md?page=6)