# Maps of ancient vegetation vs recent desertification **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 4, 2012, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maps-of-ancient-vegetation-vs-recent-desertification/642937 "2012-12-04T05:45:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maps-of-ancient-vegetation-vs-recent-desertification/642937/1 "2012-12-04T05:45:48Z")
Based on: Biblical movies where the Middle East is fertile? > **[Biblical movies where the Middle East is fertile?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=674354)** > > Hi, the Biblical movies I can remember are set in deserts since the modern-day Middle East is basically a desert. I thought there was a “fertile crescent” there… Similar to how I think Northern Africa used to be very fertile until it was... > **[Desertification](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertification)** > > Desertification is a type of gradual land degradation of fertile land into arid desert due to a combination of natural processes and human activities. > The immediate cause of desertification is the loss of most vegetation. This is driven by a number of factors, alone or in combination, such as drought, climatic shifts, tillage for agriculture, overgrazing and deforestation for fuel or construction materials. Though vegetation plays a major role in determining the biological composition of the s... > [@](#): > > …The most common cause of desertification is the over cultivation of desert lands…Overgrazing removes this vegetation causing erosion and loss of topsoil… Is it true that the deserts in North Africa and the Middle East were much greener in the past? Ideally I’d like to see maps showing how green they probably were otherwise a detailed description would be good. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maps-of-ancient-vegetation-vs-recent-desertification/642937/2 "2012-12-04T06:22:18Z")
Over farming isn’t going to make it stop raining in a given area. I’m guessing the word desrtification doesn’t mean “to turn into a desert” but rather something more along the lines of “the area became deserted” as in barren. You’ll notice, in the linked article there’s a line that reads “Reforestation gets at one of the root causes of desertification and isn’t just a treatment of the symptoms. Environmental organizations[27] work in places where deforestation and desertification are contributing to extreme poverty. There they focus primarily on educating the local population about the dangers of deforestation and sometimes employ them to grow seedlings, which they transfer to severely deforested areas during the rainy season.” Are there typically ‘rainy seasons’ in deserts? ---
**Author:** ![wheresmymind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/91b2a8/32.png) [@wheresmymind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wheresmymind)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maps-of-ancient-vegetation-vs-recent-desertification/642937/3 "2012-12-04T06:44:45Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Over farming isn’t going to make it stop raining in a given area. > I’m guessing the word desrtification doesn’t mean “to turn into a desert” but rather something more along the lines of “the area became deserted” as in barren. > > You’ll notice, in the linked article there’s a line that reads “Reforestation gets at one of the root causes of desertification and isn’t just a treatment of the symptoms. Environmental organizations[27] work in places where deforestation and desertification are contributing to extreme poverty. There they focus primarily on educating the local population about the dangers of deforestation and sometimes employ them to grow seedlings, which they transfer to severely deforested areas during the rainy season.” > Are there typically ‘rainy seasons’ in deserts? No, [desertification](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertification) means “turning into a desert.” It’s common in arid areas, especially around the margins of a desert. It’s a complex process that can have both anthropogenic and natural causes. Contrary to your assertion, changes in land use (especially deforestation, which is common to open up land for agriculture) do indeed affect the local water cycle, and can change precipitation patterns. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maps-of-ancient-vegetation-vs-recent-desertification/642937/4 "2012-12-04T07:17:03Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > …You’ll notice, in the linked article there’s a line that reads "Reforestation gets at one of the root causes of desertification and isn’t just a treatment of the symptoms… Yeah it can be reversed (to some degree?) but I’m asking if places were greener than they were in the past compared to when they were at their worst. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maps-of-ancient-vegetation-vs-recent-desertification/642937/5 "2012-12-04T07:52:39Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Over farming isn’t going to make it stop raining in a given area. No, but it can drain the soil of nutrients and salt up the soil. Or render it vulnerable to being simply blown away by the wind because the pre-farmland ground cover is gone; remember the [Dust Bowl](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_Bowl). > [@](#): > > The phenomenon was caused by severe drought combined with farming methods that did not include crop rotation, fallow fields, cover crops, soil terracing and wind-breaking trees to prevent wind erosion.[1] Extensive deep plowing of the virgin topsoil of the Great Plains in the preceding decade had displaced the natural deep-rooted grasses that normally kept the soil in place and trapped moisture even during periods of drought and high winds. Rapid mechanization of farm implements, especially small gasoline tractors and widespread use of the harvester-combine were significant in the decisions to convert grassland (much of which received no more than 10 inches (250 mm) of precipitation per year) to cultivated cropland. > > During the drought of the 1930s, without natural anchors to keep the soil in place, it dried, turned to dust, and blew away with the prevailing winds. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maps-of-ancient-vegetation-vs-recent-desertification/642937/6 "2012-12-04T08:57:00Z")
[Map of rainfall in the Sahel going back 10,000 years](http://oceanworld.tamu.edu/resources/oceanography-book/desertificationinsahel.html) Tunisia used to be known as the Bread Basket of Africa in Roman times. These days, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maps-of-ancient-vegetation-vs-recent-desertification/642937/7 "2012-12-04T09:03:26Z")
Modern farming techniques have made farmlands of what was once desert semi desert areas. The sub continent and Israel are a couple of examples. Iran OTH never really recovered from the Mongols and Tamerlane destroying the irrigation system, while Iraq only reached pre 1258 level food production in the 1970’s. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maps-of-ancient-vegetation-vs-recent-desertification/642937/8 "2012-12-04T19:21:31Z")
If memory serves, some researchers have contended that recent climate shifts have caused some regreening around the edges of the Sahara.