# "March Against Sharia" **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 10, 2017, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-against-sharia/788623 "2017-06-10T17:21:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-against-sharia/788623/81 "2017-06-13T02:21:54Z")
Many immigrant groups coming to the United States run afoul of cultural traditions that are contrary to US law. They get prosecuted, they try the “but this is our tradition” argument and it doesn’t work. Eventually it stops. We had a similar problem when the Hmong came over. Their tradition was to marry 12-14 year old girls to 35+ year old men. They argued that it was their culture and tradition. They lost. Now it isn’t something you hear of very often - and we still prosecute it. FGM will be prosecuted, they’ll argue it is their culture, they’ll lose. Doctors who do it will lose their licenses. And word will get around and it will (largely) come to an end. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-against-sharia/788623/82 "2017-06-13T02:34:36Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Again, I reiterate that people need to read Agent Storm. It’s not about how terrible “those” people are. > > It’s a true story of a man’s journey from hard core Danish biker & drug seller to devout Muslim. A man who only wanted to better himself. That desire got twisted into something very ugly. He saw and did some terrible things. Eventually he realized that this was not the true path of Islam. > > If you only read one book in 2017. Then please read this one. It does show the extremist world for what it is. “Those” people are a minuscule portion of the total Muslim population. How about the next abortion doctor who gets killed, we call _you_ an extremist Christian. Accuse _you_ of harboring terrorists at your local church. And don’t forget, Christians like Pence, Cruz and Huckabee have no problem establishing [del]Sharia[/del] Christian law in this country. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-against-sharia/788623/83 "2017-06-13T02:52:20Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > “Those” people are a minuscule portion of the total Muslim population. How about the next abortion doctor who gets killed, we call _you_ an extremist Christian. Accuse _you_ of harboring terrorists at your local church. > And don’t forget, Christians like Pence, Cruz and Huckabee have no problem establishing [del]Sharia[/del] Christian law in this country. That’s the entire point of the book. There are a lot of recent converts to Islam looking to better themselves. Change their lives. People like Morton with violent pasts. These young converts are easy prey for the extremist teachings. They don’t know the Koran that well. It doesn’t excuse any bad things they may do, but it’s easier to understand how it happens. The book is a slow read. There’s a lot of detail to get through. Seeing the journey this guy took was quite interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-against-sharia/788623/84 "2017-06-13T03:08:22Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Yet in America, we had a Vice President cancel a meeting today because there would be another woman present at the meeting and his wife couldn’t be there as a chaperone. > > And you’re complaining about Muslim cultural attitudes toward women. Not that I disbelieve you, but can you point to a source for the Pence meeting cancellation? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-against-sharia/788623/85 "2017-06-13T03:26:44Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’m stunned beyond belief that of all places, The Dope is endorsing a practice that subjugates women and in some cases persecutes them. > > I support religious tolerance. But not to this extreme. Who, specifically, is “endorsing” the practice of genital mutilation here? Certainly not I. Another thing I’m not endorsing is poorly-informed bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-against-sharia/788623/86 "2017-06-13T09:41:08Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’m well aware FGM is an abomination practiced in some African countries. Primarily by Muslims, but I readily conceed other religions in those countries probably do it to. It is very nice, the Coptic Egyptian christians and the Ethiopian Orthodox christians will be very happy to know you consider them not Christian but Muslim, all 35-40 million of them. Of course the FGM is unknown in the majority of the Islamic world and even in the Muslim North Africa we do not practice it at all - it is an Egyptian practice. But so nice to see the smear repeated. > [@](#): > > I brought it up because there’s a current US case with over a hundred victims. Who knows if that’s the tip of the iceberg? They’re still investigating so you brought it up out of the sheer prejudice. > [@](#): > > Yes, only a few Muslim countries have religious police. The others use their regular police to enforce their religious laws. Somehow I don’t think the people arrested particularly care. So you jump from making an assertion not supported by your own citation to making another assertion that has no support based purely on your badly informed prejudices that you lack the shame to stop repeating as if you had some factual knowledge. What “religious laws” exist in the Code Civil of 1956? > [@](#): > > I see cases like this reported several times a year. > [Couple 'detained in UAE for sex outside marriage' - BBC News](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-39208946) What “religious police” and what “religioius laws” are involved here in the Gulf - United Arab Emirates - incident? There is the secular law > [@](#): > > I know extremist religious practices are not a major problem in the US. Yet. It’s our job to make sure that doesn’t change. By ignorantly repeating the half truths and the falsehoods you have absorbed it seems. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-against-sharia/788623/87 "2017-06-13T09:51:38Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I see cases like this reported several times a year. > [Couple 'detained in UAE for sex outside marriage' - BBC News](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-39208946) . Of course by your standards I can now say that some States in the United States have had the Christian Sharia Law! [The Florida](http://www.wctv.tv/home/headlines/FL_Couples_Living_Together_Without_Being_Married_Can_Get_Arrested_128845313.html) only recently repealed its law indistinguishable from the UAE, in the 2011. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-against-sharia/788623/88 "2017-06-13T11:03:33Z")
[At least I can know that the performance of Aceplace57 here in jumping from blindly repeating one refuted half truth to another is not some thing unusual](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=757628&page=9). ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-against-sharia/788623/89 "2017-06-13T12:37:45Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I support religious tolerance. But not to this extreme. Extreme Tolerance Will Not Be Tolerated. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-against-sharia/788623/90 "2017-06-13T12:50:05Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > When was the last time you heard of Christians regularly stoning/executing\* women for adultery, though? The 1600s? You know what **PastTense** meant. The people described in the OP are assholes, but c’mon, this is weaksauce. > > \*And in Christian societies, most women were burned at the stake, rather than stoned. [I’ll assume you mean “are”, not “were”, right](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/centralafricanrepublic/12018588/Christian-militias-in-Central-African-Republic-burnt-witches-at-stake-says-UN-report.html)? ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-against-sharia/788623/91 "2017-06-13T13:07:46Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > [At least I can know that the performance of Aceplace57 here in jumping from blindly repeating one refuted half truth to another is not some thing unusual](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=757628&page=9). diversionary tactics, personal attacks, creating a bad place for debate/discussion…yes, keep doing your thing. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-against-sharia/788623/92 "2017-06-13T14:23:54Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > diversionary tactics, personal attacks, creating a bad place for debate/discussion…yes, keep doing your thing. Damn, my ironyometer just broke again! I have to spring for the ruggedized version. ---
**Author:** ![KAndre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@KAndre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KAndre)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-against-sharia/788623/93 "2017-06-13T17:51:54Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > When was the last time you heard of Christians regularly stoning/executing\* women for adultery, though? The 1600s? You know what **PastTense** meant. The people described in the OP are assholes, but c’mon, this is weaksauce. > > \*And in Christian societies, most women were burned at the stake, rather than stoned. Christians killing women for adultery? All you have to do is look up “honor killing” or “crimes of passion”. From Wikipedia: for France - _The Napoleonic Code did not allow women to murder unfaithful husbands, while it permitted the murder of unfaithful women by their husbands.[63] The Napoleonic Code Article 324 which was passed in 1810 permitted the murders of an unfaithful wife and her lover at the hand of her husband.[64] It was abolished only in 1975._ And just to make clear, the original French code was adopted secularly by many countries in the middle east. For Italy - _Similar to other Southern/Mediterranean European areas, “honor” was traditionally important in Italy. Indeed, until 1981, the Criminal Code provided for mitigating circumstances for such killings; until 1981 the law read: Art. 587: He who causes the death of a spouse, daughter, or sister upon discovering her in illegitimate carnal relations and in the heat of passion caused by the offence to his honour or that of his family will be sentenced to three to seven years. The same sentence shall apply to whom, in the above circumstances, causes the death of the person involved in illegitimate carnal relations with his spouse, daughter, or sister._ For Brazil - \*Throughout the 20th century, husbands have used the “legitimate defense of their honor” (legítima defesa da honra) as justification for adultery-related killings in court cases . Although this defense was not explicitly stipulated in the 20th century Criminal Code, it has been successfully pleaded by lawyers throughout the 20th century, in particular in the interior of the country, though less so in the coastal big cities. \* And India has a whole paragraph to itself. The abuse/killing of women for adultery is a cultural thing. A worldwide cultural thing that to this day is not limited to Muslims or “sharia law”. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-against-sharia/788623/94 "2017-06-13T17:57:35Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > [I’ll assume you mean “are”, not “were”, right](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/centralafricanrepublic/12018588/Christian-militias-in-Central-African-Republic-burnt-witches-at-stake-says-UN-report.html)? Aw fuck, that’s messed up. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-against-sharia/788623/95 "2017-06-13T19:53:38Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Not that I disbelieve you, but can you point to a source for the Pence meeting cancellation? Can’t find a news article about it; absent anything specific, I’d say it was a joke relating to [Pence’s comments about (not) being alone with women other than his wife.](http://fortune.com/2017/04/05/mike-pence-wife-dinner/) ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-against-sharia/788623/96 "2017-06-13T20:14:51Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Can’t find a news article about it; absent anything specific, I’d say it was a joke relating to [Pence’s comments about (not) being alone with women other than his wife.](http://fortune.com/2017/04/05/mike-pence-wife-dinner/) Oh, now I remember reading about that. He’s a real quirky guy, that Pence fellow! ---
**Author:** ![yornmine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e480ec/32.png) [@yornmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yornmine)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-against-sharia/788623/97 "2017-06-14T21:08:54Z")
It’s so cute how defensive the idiots on the left get when the rest of us refuse to kowtow to their favorite “religion” Islam. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-against-sharia/788623/98 "2017-06-14T22:04:37Z")
A Laundry is needed. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-against-sharia/788623/99 "2017-06-14T22:06:47Z")
Warning and suspended. > [@yornmine](#): > > It’s so cute how defensive the idiots on the left get when the rest of us refuse to kowtow to their favorite “religion” Islam. ---
**Author:** ![Noel\_Prosequi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b19c9b/32.png) [@Noel\_Prosequi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noel_Prosequi)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-against-sharia/788623/100 "2017-06-15T04:20:13Z")
Small data point. I’m not an Islamic scholar. Tried to read the Koran once; lost interest (same story with the Bible). Heard all the stuff about cutting off hands in Sharia, etc. So no real knowledge to speak of. I spent some time in Malaysia about 10 years ago. Malaysia is an Islamic country with a mostly British legal heritage. But they do use Sharia for matrimonial stuff. One day I was in a law library and decided to poke about. I found the matrimonial reports, which looked pretty much like any recognisable set of Western law reports - a series of cases deciding individual disputes. They seemed to follow recognisably legalistic reasoning. They had head notes and lists of authorities. A point of difference was that there seemed to be less reliance on previous case law, and more references to religious authority like the Koran and Hadith. The fact that they created the reports, of course, meant that there was value in case precedents nevertheless. The case volumes looked like routine collections of sad stories you’d get anywhere - custody, maintenance, etc. The courts’ solutions were attempts to identify principle and apply it to facts that any Western lawyer would recognise. And the results, from the sample I read, were not wildly out of line with what would be Western expectations, even if the way of getting there was different. No brutality, no ideological craziness. Women were not routinely left destitute or routinely deprived of their kids, although I am in no position to reflect upon broad statistical trends beyond the few dozen cases I looked at. A different way of thinking from mine at the level of detail, and a reliance on a source of authority that I couldn’t buy into, to be sure. I realise this is only one country’s adaptation of Sharia, and in only one aspect of the law. I saw foreign, but I did not see cancer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-against-sharia/788623.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-against-sharia/788623.md?page=6)