# March Madness Reseed Challenge **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 14, 2019, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-madness-reseed-challenge/831132 "2019-03-14T15:50:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-madness-reseed-challenge/831132/1 "2019-03-14T15:50:12Z")
Yes, it’s NCAA March Madness time again! While it’s fun to fill out brackets the usual way, I thought it might be interesting to try a different way to “play” the tournament. There’s always some disagreement and discussion about the seeding of the tournament. Let’s make a game of it. Of the 64 teams in the tournament, there’s four 1 seeds, four 2 seeds, four 3 seeds, etc. Everyone playing along will choose their own seeding. That is, you’ll need four teams for at each seed level. You don’t need to divide into regions. The idea is to give better seeds to the better team and worse seed to the worse teams. The goal is to do better than the official seeding, and better than the other players. How do we judge who seeded better? Whenever a team wins, everyone gets points. No one gets points when a team loses. The points you get depend on the official seed and your seed of the team. The better your seed of a team, the more points you’ll get win they win, while the worse your seed for them, the fewer points. Details for the math impaired: {Points from Team} = {Wins by Team} x {Original Seed of Team} x (17 - {Your Seed of Team}). [Example from 2018.](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1T_DqeFTtUp1rcLC0hcSa1nhuAbpMRZpKycLtJCX6ujA/edit?usp=sharing) Last year I got 3411 points vs the official seeding with 3026 points. [I’ll keep a Google Sheet for scoring.](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BUb3IlTGGzkuIhm6fzg7YNqBZ3S-eUA-UvwbZwBCn1U/edit?usp=sharing) If you’re interested in playing, please send me your seeding by posting here or private message before the first game starts. You may submit more than once, but only the last version will “count”. I hope there’s some interest and feel free to ask questions. Note: I think this thread is a better fit for the Game Room because we’re not actually actually playing a game in the thread, but looking at sports results. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-madness-reseed-challenge/831132/2 "2019-03-14T16:07:25Z")
I’ll play. How do you want to handle the play-in games? There are actually 68 teams in the tournament, so I think a couple of the seed positions have six teams. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-madness-reseed-challenge/831132/3 "2019-03-14T16:10:49Z")
I planned to ignore them, just because I like the elegance of four teams at each seed. And it gives everyone more time to decide their seeding before the games start. But there’s no reason in principle that we’d have to ignore them. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-madness-reseed-challenge/831132/4 "2019-03-14T18:18:05Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I planned to ignore them, just because I like the elegance of four teams at each seed. And it gives everyone more time to decide their seeding before the games start. But there’s no reason in principle that we’d have to ignore them. In other words “before the first games start” can mean after the play-in games but definitely before the 64 remaining teams start to play ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-madness-reseed-challenge/831132/5 "2019-03-14T19:14:25Z")
For a play-in game between Team A and B: if we want to submit our “bracket” before the play-in games, can we list Team A/Team B and get credit if either wins? ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-madness-reseed-challenge/831132/6 "2019-03-14T20:44:02Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > In other words “before the first games start” can mean after the play-in games but definitely before the 64 remaining teams start to play Yes. Assuming we’re using the 64 teams only, then deadline would be before any of the 64-bracket games are played. > [@TroutMan](#): > > For a play-in game between Team A and B: if we want to submit our “bracket” before the play-in games, can we list Team A/Team B and get credit if either wins? That is, your entry for the play-in slot would be for whichever play-in team won it. Seems fair. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-madness-reseed-challenge/831132/7 "2019-03-18T13:30:33Z")
The seeds are out. I’m working out my seeds now, but wait to post until after the play-in. The fun thing about this compared to the usual brackets is you’ll always get points no matter who wins. But one team will give you more than the other, at least until the finals. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-madness-reseed-challenge/831132/8 "2019-03-18T21:31:30Z")
[Moderating] This thread is both a commentary on a game and a game in itself, so I could see justification for it being either here or in Thread Games. Since it could fit in in either forum, I’m going to take the path of least resistance and leave it where it started. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2019, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-madness-reseed-challenge/831132/9 "2019-03-23T16:11:49Z")
After second day. ```auto 1 1743 Pleonast 2 1713 Troutman 3 1684 Kimble 4 1632 Official 5 1620 Biotop ``` ---
**Author:** ![Kimble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimble/32/19185_2.png) [@Kimble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimble)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2019, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-madness-reseed-challenge/831132/10 "2019-03-24T07:50:21Z")
I might’ve been eliminated after Day 2, but I’m pretty sure I am now. ☹ My losing secret: take 538’s winning probabilities, use them to come up with the expected number of points each team would earn, and seed the teams that way. If I did my math right, I’m 64 points behind Pleonast and can only gain points through: - UNC (max 1 point per win \* 5 games left = 5 points) - Michigan (2 \* 4 = 8) - Houston (3 \* 5 = 15) Even if all 3 teams won the tournament, I’d still be 36 points behind. I believe the closest I can get is 5 wins for Houston, 3 for Michigan, and 2 for UNC – that’s 41 points behind. (Unofficial totals: Pleonast 2052, Troutman 2024, me 1988, official 1934, Biotop 1925. I haven’t checked whether or not anyone else is eliminated.) ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2019, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-madness-reseed-challenge/831132/11 "2019-03-24T14:11:34Z")
After day three: ```auto Rank Points Player 1 2052 Pleonast 2 2024 Troutman 3 1988 Kimble 4 1934 Official 5 1925 Biotop ``` I used 538 as a starting point, but make some adjustments. Guesswork, more or less. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-madness-reseed-challenge/831132/12 "2019-03-25T13:29:12Z")
Down to sweet sixteen: ```auto Rank Points Player 1 2377 Pleonast 2 2352 Troutman 3 2314 Kimble 4 2230 Biotop 5 2208 Official ``` Every back over the official seeding now. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-madness-reseed-challenge/831132/13 "2019-03-25T15:01:45Z")
Surprising that we’re all over the official seeding, when the sweet 16 has only two seeds outside of 1-4 (and one of those is a 5). I guess the high number of 1st round 10 and 12 seeds was enough to push us ahead. Whether I can overtake **Pleonast** or not, I will consider it a victory if we all beat the seeds. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-madness-reseed-challenge/831132/14 "2019-03-30T04:22:41Z")
Advancing to Elite Eight: ```auto Rank Points Player 1 2644 Pleonast 2 2602 Troutman 3 2571 Kimble 4 2472 Biotop 5 2460 Official ``` ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-madness-reseed-challenge/831132/15 "2019-04-01T04:40:51Z")
At the Final Four: ```auto Rank Points Player 1 2807 Pleonast 2 2755 Troutman 3 2724 Kimble 4 2615 Biotop 5 2608 Official ``` ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2019, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-madness-reseed-challenge/831132/16 "2019-04-09T04:09:11Z")
And with the completed tournament ```auto Rank Points Player 1 2884 Pleonast 2 2825 Troutman 3 2798 Kimble 4 2682 Official 5 2678 Biotop ``` Thanks, everyone for playing! ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2019, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-madness-reseed-challenge/831132/17 "2019-04-09T04:26:25Z")
On the positive side I live just south of Charlottesville, work in Charlottesville and graduated from UVA way back in 1983 (Ralph Sampson’s class). WA -HOO-WA!!! ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2019, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-madness-reseed-challenge/831132/18 "2019-04-09T04:32:45Z")
Thanks for running this, Pleonast. It was a fun change. ---
**Author:** ![Kimble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimble/32/19185_2.png) [@Kimble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimble)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2019, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-madness-reseed-challenge/831132/19 "2019-04-09T07:02:50Z")
Thanks for running this and congrats on your win in both this and the normal bracket! ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2019, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/march-madness-reseed-challenge/831132/20 "2019-04-09T14:26:39Z")
I doubled down by using my seeding here to fill out my regular bracket. I was either going to do well in both or terrible in both.