# Marching vs. Voting **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 23, 2017, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marching-vs-voting/777932 "2017-01-23T14:45:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![HumbleThinker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@HumbleThinker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HumbleThinker)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marching-vs-voting/777932/41 "2017-01-24T16:50:43Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > This is just not true. King did not condone rioting. He did not condemn rioters because he wanted to keep the movement unified. If you look at the history King and his non-violence approach got the Civil Rights Act passsed, the Voting Rights Act passed, and sympathetic administrations elected. Then the rioting happened and there was a backlash and Nixon was elected. He didn’t condone rioting, he called it immoral and counterproductive. This was true. I didn’t mean to imply that he did. But he knew it’s usefulness in forcing his opponents to negotiate with his non-violent group. This is why he wanted to keep the movement unified by not condemning rioters. King quite astutely knew that the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act were just the beginning of addressing the concerns of black people, particularly poor black people. That and these laws were not being enforced in large parts of the country, particularly the South. Perhaps non-violent protest did get these pieces of legislation passed, I don’t know the detailed history of that specific time period, but it wasn’t enough. He would talk of riots as being intended to shock the white community, being the voice of unheard suffering, etc. He talked of the government needing to address the roots of the problems and middle class white people not being so apathetic while hypocritically telling riotous black people to wait for justice. He did not call for them to end outright. Unfortunately, the more revolutionary side of King, including the side of him that was socialist and anti-capitalist, tend to be glossed over in favor of just focusing on his talk of non-violence. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marching-vs-voting/777932/42 "2017-01-24T17:02:57Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > \*“All over the country”? > “likely over 1 million”? > > “likely 500,000” and “200,000”? > “I don’t think it’s a stretch”?\* > > There are over 25,000 cities in the U.S.A… Some of them had staged protests. Which one’s? Maybe it’s a secret? How many people actually appeared at last Saturdays no-pro-life-women-allowed-at-the-woman’s-march march? That seems to be a secret, also. > > It’s “likely” that your claims may just be a stretch made by the LSM, or by the no-pro-life-women-allowed-at-the-woman’s-march march leadership? > > I wonder how many no-pro-life-women-allowed-at-the-woman’s-march marchers talked about blowing up the Whitehouse? And how many people at the Trump inauguration were paid Trump staffers? Hey I’m starting to enjoy this post-truth world. It is kind of fun. I can see why you Trump supporters like it so much. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marching-vs-voting/777932/43 "2017-01-24T17:38:31Z")
> [@HumbleThinker](#): > > He didn’t condone rioting, he called it immoral and counterproductive. This was true. I didn’t mean to imply that he did. > > But he knew it’s usefulness in forcing his opponents to negotiate with his non-violent group. The same goes for Gandhi, BTW. While he’s trumpeted as the one, tiny bloke who got England to back the fuck off just by sitting down in the middle of the road ; the truth is that beyond him [a large part of the Indian independance movement](https://kurukshetra1.wordpress.com/2013/04/19/no-non-violence-didnt-free-india-from-the-british-empire/)involved socking the British right in the rhymes-with-nauticals. Including… Gandhi’s 😉 ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marching-vs-voting/777932/44 "2017-01-24T18:32:12Z")
Gandhi’s effectiveness and influence waned pretty heavily by the 1940’s, the critical period. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marching-vs-voting/777932/45 "2017-01-24T19:17:19Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Gandhi’s effectiveness and influence waned pretty heavily by the 1940’s, the critical period. When did Madonna’s effectiveness wane? 1990’s? ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marching-vs-voting/777932/46 "2017-01-24T20:28:51Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Gandhi’s effectiveness and influence waned pretty heavily by the 1940’s, the critical period. Depends on what you define “effectiveness and influence” > [@](#): > > As I delved deeper into the philosophy of Gandhi, my skepticism concerning the power of love gradually diminished, and I came to see for the first time that the Christian doctrine of love, operating through the Gandhian method of nonviolence, is one of the most potent weapons available to an oppressed people in their struggle for freedom. > > -Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. I am pretty sure that Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr would have disagreed with his personal meaning of “effectiveness and influence” ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marching-vs-voting/777932/47 "2017-01-24T20:47:25Z")
> [@HumbleThinker](#): > > He didn’t condone rioting, he called it immoral and counterproductive. This was true. I didn’t mean to imply that he did. > > But he knew it’s usefulness in forcing his opponents to negotiate with his non-violent group. This is why he wanted to keep the movement unified by not condemning rioters. King quite astutely knew that the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act were just the beginning of addressing the concerns of black people, particularly poor black people. That and these laws were not being enforced in large parts of the country, particularly the South. > > Perhaps non-violent protest did get these pieces of legislation passed, I don’t know the detailed history of that specific time period, but it wasn’t enough. He would talk of riots as being intended to shock the white community, being the voice of unheard suffering, etc. He talked of the government needing to address the roots of the problems and middle class white people not being so apathetic while hypocritically telling riotous black people to wait for justice. He did not call for them to end outright. > > Unfortunately, the more revolutionary side of King, including the side of him that was socialist and anti-capitalist, tend to be glossed over in favor of just focusing on his talk of non-violence. The riots did not force anyone to deal with him, that is historical revisionism. King appealed to people’s consciences and not their fears. That is why it succeeded so spectacularly. This was not India with hundred of million of Indians versus thousands of British. This is 12 percent of the country versus 85 percent of the country. In order to win he could not play power politics but bring people to his side. We remember the non-violent King and not the socialist one because that was the effective one. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marching-vs-voting/777932/48 "2017-01-24T22:34:02Z")
for historical record - > [@doorhinge](#): > > \*“All over the country”? > “likely over 1 million”? > > “likely 500,000” and “200,000”? > “I don’t think it’s a stretch”?\* > > There are over 25,000 cities in the U.S.A… Some of them had staged protests. Which one’s? Maybe it’s a secret? How many people actually appeared at last Saturdays no-pro-life-women-allowed-at-the-woman’s-march march? That seems to be a secret, also. > > It’s “likely” that your claims may just be a stretch made by the LSM, or by the no-pro-life-women-allowed-at-the-woman’s-march march leadership? > > I wonder how many no-pro-life-women-allowed-at-the-woman’s-march marchers talked about blowing up the Whitehouse? (underline added) > [@jsc1953](#): > > [Boom.](http://theweek.com/speedreads/675110/estimated-1-100-americans-marched-women-saturday) That quite a list. 3,231,843 to 4,785,498 protestors in 600 cities. [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/1xa0iLqYKz8x9Yc\_rfhtmSOJQ2EGgeUVjvV4A8LsIaxY/htmlview?sle=true#gid=0](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/1xa0iLqYKz8x9Yc_rfhtmSOJQ2EGgeUVjvV4A8LsIaxY/htmlview?sle=true#gid=0) ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marching-vs-voting/777932/49 "2017-01-24T23:59:02Z")
One of the other major reasons the British got out of India is that they were really struggling to find people from Britain to run the place. Once upon a time, a vaguely ambitious English chap looking for a chance to do something interesting could head to India and do something there - take a commission in the Indian army, work as a magistrate in some remote province, that sort of thing. In the aftermath of World War II (and even just before it), the novelty had worn off, Britain was broke, and the Indians were getting increasingly insistent they wanted their country back. I read somewhere that when the decision was finally made to grant India independence, there were something like 1200 Europeans in the Indian Civil Service (ie the bureacracy running _all of India_) and the rapidly declining numbers of people signing up for a chance to help maintain the jewel in the crown of the Empire facilitated the decision to leave. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marching-vs-voting/777932/50 "2017-01-25T01:56:30Z")
We listened to prattle of 2nd Amendment solutions to eliminate Obama or Hillary, but that was just good ‘ol boys having fun smellin’ their farts. But let Madonna preach a message of LOVE … [QUOTE=Madonna] **Welcome to the revolution of L♡ve** … blowing up the White House, **but I know that this won’t change anything**. **I choose L♡ve. Are you with me? Say this with me: We choose L♡ve. We choose Love. We choose L♡ve.** [/QUOTE] … and the Idiotocracy responds with prattle designed to incite criminal violence: [QUOTE=Newt Gingrich] What you have is an **emerging left-wing fa卐ci卐m**. She’s part of it. And I think **we have to be prepared to protect our卐elve卐. Frankly, the truth is she ought to be arre卐ted.** [/QUOTE] Sad. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marching-vs-voting/777932/51 "2017-01-25T02:45:24Z")
Newt trying to look relevant. Sad. ---
**Author:** ![Katriona](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/katriona/32/113_2.png) [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marching-vs-voting/777932/52 "2017-01-25T03:15:08Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > True. I will also provide a standard reminder that it is statistically certain, even being generous in my Bayesian assumptions, that tens of thousands, if not more than a hundred thousand, of the people who marched on Sunday did not bother to vote, and if they had, Donald Trump might not be President. > > I will also provide my personal opinion that every single one of those people should be profoundly ashamed of themselves, and they need to look in the mirror and ask themselves what the hell they were thinking. Since the march was on Saturday, you probably have a point about Sunday’s marchers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marching-vs-voting/777932.md?page=2)