# Marcus has two mommies or "I will never use the word \`gay' in school again." **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 2, 2003, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marcus-has-two-mommies-or-i-will-never-use-the-word-gay-in-school-again/216445 "2003-12-02T05:15:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marcus-has-two-mommies-or-i-will-never-use-the-word-gay-in-school-again/216445/81 "2003-12-03T02:48:28Z")
Defence of Marriage Act? Not that that would necessarily prove anything about Lousiana. Hippy-dippy left wing California has one of those things, too. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marcus-has-two-mommies-or-i-will-never-use-the-word-gay-in-school-again/216445/82 "2003-12-03T02:49:18Z")
**D** efense **o** f **M** arriage **A** ct. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marcus-has-two-mommies-or-i-will-never-use-the-word-gay-in-school-again/216445/83 "2003-12-03T02:56:37Z")
I’m not **Homebrew** but I’ll answer anyway. DOMA is the horrificly named “Defense of Marriage Act.” Passed in 1996 by a Congress spooked by a Hawaii supreme court ruling that denying marriage rights to same-sex couples was a violation of the state constitution, and cravenly signed in the dead of night by Bill Clinton, DOMA defines “marriage” in federal law as existing only between man and woman, one each, and “spouse” as a party to a one-man/one-woman marriage. It also authorized the states to ignore same-sex marriages which might one day be performed in other states. There are serious doubts as to its constitutionality but until such time as a state legalizes same-sex marriage no one has standing to challenge it. > [@](#): > > Well for your sake I hope you get the ruling you want but you guys seem to forget that there hasn’t been a ruling yet. > > Opinions on this board don’t constitute a violation of law, as much as you would like for that to be the case. Oh for fuck’s sake. So if someone kicked your ass, would you say “she assaulted me” or would you say “I can’t make any assessment as to whether a law was broken here because I keep personal opinion and emotion out of it”? But OK dumbass, please offer up your opinion as to why you think everyone here who has explained to you that the law in question that has been violated is the First Amendment is wrong. > [@](#): > > Insofar as “stupid and ignorant with a big dick” is concerned; well you know the offer. Learn to read, dumbass. > [@](#): > > **county** , I don’t really know you that well, so I gotta wonder, are you stupid, ignorant or just a dick? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marcus-has-two-mommies-or-i-will-never-use-the-word-gay-in-school-again/216445/84 "2003-12-03T03:06:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by county \* > gee, I bet the judge is a real: > > “freedom of speech for children talking about gay issues > in school supporter” > > don’t you think? OK, I’ll waste my breath one more time here: Who’s talking about children talking about gay _issues_? You, and only you. Who’s talking about this kid having the right to not be punished or harassed by teachers and school officials _for making mere mention of the fact that his parents happen to be a female couple_? If that doesn’t work, I hereby declare you brain-dead. DNR. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marcus-has-two-mommies-or-i-will-never-use-the-word-gay-in-school-again/216445/85 "2003-12-03T06:12:35Z")
You guys are wasting your breath on dear **county** , methinks. Anyone who resorts to “well, we’ll see” as their entire argument obviously has no argument and is not willing to listen to reason. ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marcus-has-two-mommies-or-i-will-never-use-the-word-gay-in-school-again/216445/86 "2003-12-03T06:14:24Z")
Oh, well, it’s Louisiana, what do you expect? This post approved by the Committee To Ensure Only People Who Suffered In That State Get To Insult It. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marcus-has-two-mommies-or-i-will-never-use-the-word-gay-in-school-again/216445/87 "2003-12-03T06:19:20Z")
This reminds me of when I was in school… someone asked me what the name of the rap group N.W.A. stood for, and I got in trouble for telling him. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marcus-has-two-mommies-or-i-will-never-use-the-word-gay-in-school-again/216445/88 "2003-12-03T06:31:15Z")
May I remind everyone dissing Louisiana that the _Heather Has Two Mommies_ children’s library banning flap took place in Texas? 😃 [http://www.sodomylaws.org/usa/texas/txnews34.htm](http://www.sodomylaws.org/usa/texas/txnews34.htm) …and that it has been challenged–but retained–in Ohio and Massachusetts? And that it has been challenged–and removed–in Oregon? The South’s got no monopoly on bone-headed bigotry. 😉 [http://solonor.com/bannedbooks/archives/001731.html](http://solonor.com/bannedbooks/archives/001731.html) ---
**Author:** ![Astra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f14d63/32.png) [@Astra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astra)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marcus-has-two-mommies-or-i-will-never-use-the-word-gay-in-school-again/216445/89 "2003-12-03T06:37:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GMRyujin \* > \*\*Oh, well, it’s Louisiana, what do you expect? > > This post approved by the Committee To Ensure Only People Who Suffered In That State Get To Insult It. \*\* I live next door and Lousiana dumps its garbage here, doesn’t that count for something? ---
**Author:** ![Kricket](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f14d63/32.png) [@Kricket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kricket)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marcus-has-two-mommies-or-i-will-never-use-the-word-gay-in-school-again/216445/90 "2003-12-03T07:36:52Z")
Well, I’ll take the emotional stand here. (I usually do) I always joke about being raised by a pack of wild lesbians, but then again my mother didn’t come out until I was in high school and by then it really didn’t phase me much. My children, my neices and nephews have all grown up calling my mom and her girlfriend Grandma and Poppy. They have no issues with it. In fifth grade my mom and Gf broke up after 17 years and it really bothered my one son so much it affected his school work. His teacher called me in to discuss what was going on and who these people were. She was cool about it and wanted to double check with me on how to deal with Josh on an emotional level. Very wonderful. Anyway, I could never imagine the confusion that child is feeling right now. I think of my second grader and know he would be torn up over something like this. Depending on how this is handled this could really screw Marcus up. My sisters and I never had issues with mom, but our brothers do. Not the I hate you kind of issues, just mixed emotions. I would hate to see a child who has his whole life ahead of him become jaded and bitter over someone else’s ignorance. Heck, even if everything runs smoothly from here on out it could change this whole childs outlook from being put under a microscope. This is sad and this is wrong. Legal or illegal, one more child is being mess up. A human being who is so young and impressionable and is just learning how to deal with the simple stresses of spelling, double digit math, keeping shoes tied, buttons lined up, and who to play with at recess. Life should be simple and carefree at this age and it’s sad that it’s not. Used to be we could stay out till the street lights came on and go as far as our moms voices could reach. Now, I dread sending my children to school and I worry when they are out of my sight. ---
**Author:** ![Kricket](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f14d63/32.png) [@Kricket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kricket)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marcus-has-two-mommies-or-i-will-never-use-the-word-gay-in-school-again/216445/91 "2003-12-03T07:44:45Z")
Sorry, when my son was in fifth grade my mom and her Gf broke up. Guess that is confusing the way I wrote it, but I was on a roll, and I don’t really venture into the pit too often except to read. ---
**Author:** ![Windwalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/5e9695/32.png) [@Windwalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Windwalker)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marcus-has-two-mommies-or-i-will-never-use-the-word-gay-in-school-again/216445/92 "2003-12-03T09:02:24Z")
I think the sad thing is that since this story is making the national news, it must be a huge deal in the local circuit, and that means even if the kid got transferred to another school, chances are the other kids there will have heard about it (heck, it only takes one). And some of them will probably tease the shit out of him, and it may only get worse as he approaches the depths of junior high. I remember people getting made fun of just for wearing sweat pants to school every day, for chrissakes; I can only imagine what being from a publically-recognized (and school-recognized!) “perverted” family will elicit from his peers. Good luck, Marcus. I hope you weave your way through the web of shit you’ll probably find yourself in. ☹ A silver lining: I am glad that this case just looks absolutely horrible for the anti-gay-rights people. Perhaps it may get some people to notice how ridiculously oppressed gay people are in many segments of our supposedly enlightened society. ---
**Author:** ![Cerri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@Cerri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerri)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marcus-has-two-mommies-or-i-will-never-use-the-word-gay-in-school-again/216445/93 "2003-12-03T09:27:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by county \* > \*\*Well, first, what is the suit about, what law was broken? > > Second, what about the judges who will hear the case, will they be sympathetic to the teacher/school or the child/child family? > > Third, noticed what’s been going on in this country lately? \*\* Ever hear of the Right to Free Speech? It’s in this little document called the Constitution. You might have heard of it. ---
**Author:** ![county](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@county](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/county)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marcus-has-two-mommies-or-i-will-never-use-the-word-gay-in-school-again/216445/94 "2003-12-03T11:39:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cerri \* > \*\*Ever hear of the Right to Free Speech? It’s in this little document called the Constitution. You might have heard of it. \*\* Yeah, I think I read about that document. Well, how old was this kid? he’s in school right? Do you think this kid could get away with saying “motherfucker” in school? Do you think the “constitution” would protect that speech? Well, the school says he said a “bad” word or equivalent, you don’t agree, I don’t agree, but that don’t necessarily make so. Perhaps I am the only one who has had this happen but the world don’t always go the way I think it should. We’ll see if this thing is settled and if not, we’ll see what the court’s/judges have to say. And if you want to… ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marcus-has-two-mommies-or-i-will-never-use-the-word-gay-in-school-again/216445/95 "2003-12-03T13:12:54Z")
First of all, I am totally appalled by all of this. Next time, maybe the kid should use the word “queer.” As an aside, I hope the “Simpsons” writers hear about this. It just has to be used as an opening chalkboard gag. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marcus-has-two-mommies-or-i-will-never-use-the-word-gay-in-school-again/216445/96 "2003-12-03T13:29:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, how old was this kid? he’s in school right? > > Do you think this kid could get away with saying “motherfucker” in school? Do you think the “constitution” would protect that speech? If anywhere in the dank recesses of that mass of tissue that some physicians somewhere might classify as your “brain” you think either that a) “gay” is a “bad word” or b) “gay” is the linguistic equivalent of “motherfucker” then you’re even more depressingly stupid than I previously gave you credit for. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marcus-has-two-mommies-or-i-will-never-use-the-word-gay-in-school-again/216445/97 "2003-12-03T13:38:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Velma \* > \*\ ***Homebrew** and **RTFirefly** have summed it up. I would be very concerned about my child’s well being in a school where he is not allowed to use the word ‘gay’ _in its correct context_ (not as an insult) when directly questioned about his family by a classmate. He is specifically being punished for using a bad word, presumably as if he had said ‘fuck’ or any type or racial slur. He did not say a bad word, he described his family as it exists in a very innocent and non-offensive way. > > If I were this boy’s mother, I would not feel good about keeping him in a school where he cannot say that his parents are gay. This is different than explaining to a child that some people might react badly and he should just ignore them. Being punished for talking about his family could make him feel ashamed and confused about why other children can talk about their mother and father but he cannot tell other classmates why he has 2 mothers. It sends a message to the child that there is something so horrible about his family that he cannot even speak the word aloud. The teacher and administration are forcing shame upon this child and I would find that unacceptable. > > I don’t see how the school can be seen as being friendly, or even tolerant, of gays in this case. It would be different if it was just a case of an over-zealous teacher, but she is backed by the administration. > > (Please note I am not saying this to pass any type of judgement on the parents for keeping or not keeping the boy in this school, I am just saying that for me, this incident in itself would be enough to make me pull my child out of the school, regardless of the outcome of any litigation.) \*\* What all you 3 said makes perfect sense. I guess for all intents and purposes school = administration. I was sort of imagining students, faculty parents, etc (to me school = hundreds of people) all being hostile towards gays, and I didn’t get that vibe from the article. ---
**Author:** ![sperfur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9adbd/32.png) [@sperfur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sperfur)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marcus-has-two-mommies-or-i-will-never-use-the-word-gay-in-school-again/216445/98 "2003-12-03T14:53:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by catsix \* > \*\*If he’s punished for this, not only are the teachers and administrators who punished him fucknuggets of a high degree, but also it will set up in the other kids’ minds the idea that there is something ‘bad’ about what this boy said, and therefore something wrong with the fact that Marcus’s moms are lesbians. > > Marcus is already different from many of his classmates in that he has two moms who are lesbians. If the school, in any sort of way, makes an issue of that or makes it look more ‘different’ and ‘bad’ to the other students, he’s probably going to get picked on. The school should have taken an entirely different approach, and that is not only to not punish him, but if any other kid made fun of Marcus for who his moms are, _those_ kids should be gently but firmly taught that it is not right to pick on Marcus for being different, or having a different kind of family.\*\* I think that was the point. The teacher and principal were appalled that the kid could possibly think it was OK that his parents are gay. They didn’t want his attitude influencing other children to think being gay was OK, so they put a stop to it. ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marcus-has-two-mommies-or-i-will-never-use-the-word-gay-in-school-again/216445/99 "2003-12-03T15:01:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Otto \* > \*\*If anywhere in the dank recesses of that mass of tissue that some physicians somewhere might classify as your “brain” you think either that a) “gay” is a “bad word” or b) “gay” is the linguistic equivalent of “motherfucker” then you’re even more depressingly stupid than I previously gave you credit for. \*\* Well, I’m not the person you’re quoting, but I think he/she was pointing out that schools don’t have to grant children unlimited freedom of speech, not that “gay” is the same as “motherfucker.” In other words, saying the only law broken was the Bill of Rights may not actually mean any law was actually broken. Hm, I’m still not sure if I’m explaining it right. Or if I’m interpreting the post the way it was meant to be interpreted. ---
**Author:** ![Priam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/77aa72/32.png) [@Priam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Priam)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marcus-has-two-mommies-or-i-will-never-use-the-word-gay-in-school-again/216445/100 "2003-12-03T15:15:03Z")
The ACLU has a fine case against the school, but it remains to be seen whether they’ll actually win it. Still, I think they’ve got a good shot of winning since there is no current evidence, per _Tinker_, that the student’s talking about his mothers caused upset in the classroom outside of the teacher’s poor befuddled brain. If no disruption occured or looked like it could’ve occured, the school has no ground to stand on for abridging the student’s First Amendment rights. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marcus-has-two-mommies-or-i-will-never-use-the-word-gay-in-school-again/216445.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marcus-has-two-mommies-or-i-will-never-use-the-word-gay-in-school-again/216445.md?page=6)