[QUOTE=phouka]
Huh?
[/QUOTE]
Rich South poor North vs poor North rich South.
Thoughts on Thatcher the milk snatcher later, got work to do right now.
::sigh:: must type faster…
I broadly agree with this. I could never wholly subscribe to her philosophy (I’ve always seen fit to pick and choose my policies from both sides of the political spectrum) But a strong figure was needed and cometh the hour cameth the Mag.
I experienced the misery of union power during the 70’s and I’m able to contrast this with the undoubted optimism of the 80’s. We were better off as a country after she left office than when she arrived.
And I say this as a working class product of a North-Eastern mining and farming community (though my sympathies were never with the miners)
You wouldn’t believe the amount of animosity some people still have towards her. There are parts of the country (mostly in the South Yorkshire region) where people will literally be organising parties to celebrate her death tonight.
Soooooooo…no different from every other government before or since? 
Not as a matter of course, but we do throw the occasional state funeral for very significant public figues: Nelson, Wellington, Gladstone, Churchill… and Diana, lest we forget.
The Prime Minister’s office is saying they will, with the permission of the Queen (can’t see how she can say no now they’ve mentioned it, which seems rather bad form, unless it had already been agreed, which I suppose is likely).
o/ So merry Christmas Maggie Thatcher May God's love be with you We all sing together in one breath. Merry Christmas Maggie Thatcher We all celebrate today 'Cause it's one day closer to your death. o/
I have absolutely no doubt there are a lot of places planning a party for the ages right now.
I see her as being in the some “wave” as Reagan in the States, and Mulroney in Canada. In favour of free market reforms on “general principles” that just happen to funnel a lot of wealth to their friends. Doesn’t mean their reforms were wrong, but they weren’t doing them except out of self-interest.
Merging a bunch of topics about this all into a Great Debate topic.
There is another thread in MPSIMS for general thoughts and wishes of rest and that kind of stuff, just to keep it separate.
“Wishes of rest and that kind of stuff.” :rolleyes:
Regards,
Shodan
Most of the North, Wales and Scotland (who wouldn’t have waited til she was dead to bury her) a uniting force she was not,very much a politician of the South and London area.
You know what I mean. General comments of all kinds that is separate and free of a huge debate, which this one is for.
I will defer to the GD mods from here on.
I would say this is probably the best statement as to Thatcher’s legacy. Right person for the right time and did some very needed reforms for the UK. Of course, also did her share of missteps and bad policies, but the good outweighed the bad and changed the trajectory of Britain.
I’m going to wade in here very carefully. I am not a citizen of the UK, but as everyone on this board knows I lived in Britain in from the mid 1970s to the mid 1980s. I have vague memories of Callaghan but the first political leader I can remember is Margaret Thatcher.
I also remember Britain in the late 1970s to be in economic turmoil. Garbagemen strikes, rail strikes… stories about mountains of rubbish that hadn’t been collected… it goes on. And of course the unions - especially the coal miners. Not to mention domestic terrorism in Northern Ireland and beyond. It was a tumultuous time.
I guess what I’m getting at is that it was an incredibly difficult time to govern. I don’t think Labour or the SDP could articulate a vision to lead Britain at the time. And of course there is much to criticize about her policies - teeming numbers of unemployed, the privatization (and reduction in quality and services) for much of the nationalized British industries. I’m just not old enough, or wise enough to be able to definitively state that she was unmitigated evil, nor that she was the greatest thing ever.
Her legacy is mixed. Her successes were great, but her failures were monumental. But I will say a few things. I get the feeling that Thatcher was well and truly a believer in conservatism. She didn’t get on the political bandwagon that was trendy. Her beliefs were rooted in her youth, from her father’s example, and her own education. In America, Reagan is often touted as the conservative benchmark, but his true understanding and interpretation of a political philosophy was paper thin, IMO. She also articulated strength to the rest of the world. She was never loved by the British public - I think it was more of situation of tolerance and disdain for the other parties - but Britain’s international reputation was probably never greater post-Churchill because of Thatcher.
Was the Falklands war a necessary excursion? I remember the stories of British troops injured and maimed in the war, over a rocky outcropping in the South Atlantic. Was the expansion of the US military presence ultimately a good thing for Britain? Not sure - but if not for it, I wouldn’t have been there. Was she essential in endorsing Gorbachev and ushering in the end of the Soviet Union? Did she err in standing against German reunification? Clearly, labeling Nelson Mandela a terrorist was one of her many missteps.
I think the impact for women in leadership in Western nations cannot be understated. Merkel and Clinton come to mind as beneficiaries.
From the popular culture perspective, she instigated a cultural movement that resolutely gave the young and poor a target. I personally think the late 1970s to mid 1980s was the richest cultural explosion for Britain since the 1960s (at least musically). Almost, to a person, the motivation for putting pen to paper or picking up a guitar had to do with speaking against Margaret Thatcher. “Stand down Margaret,” anyone?
A lot of times you hear years on that the persona of the politician was not equal to the reality. Reagan was confident and cowboy-like, but we later learned he was in the early stages of dementia. Every account I’ve ever heard of Thatcher’s steeliness has only been confirmed.
As a kid into The Smiths and ska revivalists I was supposed to revile Thatcher. But I don’t recall a tougher leader in my lifetime, including all the US presidents during my lifetime. After the Brighton bombings, I remember being amazed that she carried on with her speech and thinking she was indestructible.
Legacy?
Did you know that she called ANC a “terrorist organization”, she spoke in favour of apartheid in South Africa and some of her Tories at the time wore a badge that says: “Hang Nelson Mandela”.
What a sweet irony to see Nelson outlive her; aside of being a human.
With Wales, Scotland, and most of the North against her, how did she ever win an election?
Well, it *was *a terrorist organisation, it’s just that not all terrorists are in the wrong.
Apart from that, she was a willing hench..errr…woman of the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld cabal, that was already working it’s evil back then, they just had another front guy. It’s not only Thatcher, other governments too ‘somehow’ suddenly all bought into this Privatisation idea and damaged their countries to a considerable extent, of which we feel the consequences to this day.
No, that one would fall under the heading of “crimes.”
Huh? I recall the government of the time being anti-apartheid but also anti-sanctions and I can’t recall her speaking in favour of apartheid.
All you need to know, isn’t it?
Fuck her and everything she stood for. Elvis Costello said it much better than I ever could - including his opening words, and the way he spits out the final lines:
Tramp the Dirt Down:
