# margin is a freaking lunatic. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 14, 2011, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610 "2011-03-14T01:38:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/21 "2011-03-14T06:12:12Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Oh, horsehit. He blamed the rapists’ behavior on the liklihood that they grew up in single-parent homes. And either he or another poster commented that the\*\* girl’s behavior (apparently running around with a much older guy and having sex with him) was likely the result of growing up in a single-parent home.\*\* > > This country is awash in the problems that have resulted from the breakdown of marriage and the stable family unit. Millions and millions of kids have grown up or are growing up to live lives of crime and deprivation because they grew up in a home with only one parent, with that parent often being gone most of the time because of the need to try earn a living (either that or they’re so young and irresponsible themselves they might as well be a sibling instead of a parent). The education of these kids suffers because they are undisciplined and unmotivated, prisons become overcroweded because many of them turn to crime, and the government is forced to shell out large amounts of money in food stamps, welfare and tax exemptions in order to keep these kids and (usually) their moms afloat. > > With regard to comments made by the way this **little girl dressed and comported herself- yes, someone or something (i.e., the breakdown of societal standards) is very much to blame for the fact that she was dressing and acting like this.** Responsible parents with the right kind of values would not be allowing her to look and act the way she was. And to the extent that\*\* the way she looked and acted played a role in what happened to her,\*\*those external factors absolutely have to share in the blame. > > Another factor that comes into play in mention of the makeup and clothing she wore and her alleged sexual activity is that it’s entirely possible that those factors made some of the guys involved in her rape unaware of her true age, and/or her willingness to go along with multiple-partner sex - assuming that not all of them knew she was under threat of violence, as is likely the case.. > > What happened to that little girl is something that should happen to no one, much less at that early of an age, but is it really necessary to always adopt an all-or-nothing stance in assessing blame or innocence when something like this does happen? This little girl was wrongfully allowed to dress and behave in ways that did in fact most likely contribute to what happened to her, and the guys almost certainly bear differing degrees of culpability in terms of evil depending on when during this even they arrived and what they knew about what was really going on. > > I fully expect to come in for a world of shit for having said all this, but it accomplishes nothing in the way of understanding the underlying reasons for what happened to this little girl, nor to illustrate the need for children to grow up in stable, responsible, two-parent homes, in order to live the kinds of lives that will prepare them for a successful adulthood…and also to lessen the odds that they will be victimized by other latchkey kids who haven’t been brought up properly themselves…which the offenders in this case almost certainly are, or were in their childhood. > > P.S. - Aren’t you the one who claimed **Shodan’s** support for two-parent homes was “pimping consersative crap”? How’s about you explain to us from the liberal point of view all the benefits that children derive from growing up with only one (usually young and often absent) parent? Hey, asshole, she was ELEVEN. She wasn’t RUNNING AROUND WITH A MUCH OLDER GUY. She was raped. She was ELEVEN. Is there----Oh, wait. Starving artist. Christ, that’s three seconds I won’t get back. I bet that’s a sentence he hears all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/22 "2011-03-14T06:34:11Z")
I thought she was said to have had a 19-year-old boyfriend who she appeared to have been having sex with. If not, you can ignore that part of my post and I’ll retract the statement that suggests she was - even though there are undoubtedly many other young girls in her same circumstances who undoubtedly are. And I’ll concede that she was raped and that she’s eleven years old. Actually, I already knew that, but judging from your post you don’t seem to be aware of it. Now…what do you have to say about the rest of what I wrote? I look forward to your articulate and well reasoned response. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/23 "2011-03-14T06:39:53Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I thought she was said to have had a 19-year-old boyfriend who she appeared to have been having sex with. If not, you can ignore that part of my post and I’ll retract the statement that suggests she was - even though there are undoubtedly many other young girls in her same circumstances who undoubtedly are. > > And I’ll concede that she was raped and that she’s eleven years old. Actually, I already knew that, but judging from your post you don’t seem to be aware of it. > > Now…what do you have to say about the rest of what I wrote? > > I look forward to your articulate and well reasoned response. What part of IF SHE’S ELEVEN IT’S RAPE eludes you, asshole? Huh? As for the rest of your comments, you’re yet another Repub apologist. You’re too stupid to bother with but this time it’s so offensive and so glaring it has to be dealt with instead of ignored. ELEVEN. That’s not sex, you rapist apologist. That’s rape. ELEVEN MEANS RAPE. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/24 "2011-03-14T06:42:01Z")
> [@margin](#): > > If you’re siding with Shodan, um, you’re fucked up. Heh…I always thought that hell would indeed freeze over before you’d find a thread where **Shodan** and I were in agreeance. I would suggest that says more about your fucking lunatic rantings **margin** than any sudden temperature change down in the bowels of the earth . 😃 > [@](#): > > She cannot by any measure of the imagination be to blame for this attack on her. **Examination of her actions is therefore blaming.** (my bolding) Now that’s an interesting logical leap. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/25 "2011-03-14T06:46:56Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Heh…I always thought that hell would indeed freeze over before you’d find a thread where **Shodan** and I were in agreeance. I would suggest that says more about your fucking lunatic rantings **margin** than any sudden temperature change down in the bowels of the earth . 😃 > > (my bolding) > > Now that’s an interesting logical leap. 😃 It’s not interesting. It’s sad and disgusting that you think bashing and blaming an eleven year old girl is okay. Rapists commit rape. Not victims. If one woman or girl escapes an attack, they merely rape the next victim. But, hey, you have to feel like you’re special, so who cares about little girls? You’re just making it easier for men to bash them after they’ve been raped. What an accomplishment! ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/26 "2011-03-14T07:00:27Z")
Did the victim point a gun at any of the rapists and make them penetrate her? No, but Kambuctka’s got some interesting thoughts, interlaced with the usual excuses. Lie to yourself, honey, it ain’t working with anybody but the rapist apologists. In post number 34, she opines: > [@](#): > > I too think it’s important to know all of the facts and the backgrounds of the players in this terrible tragedy.\*\* It is not condoning the actions of the men and boys who violated the little girl to understand that she may have been at the time a willing participant in the activity.\*\* If anything that makes it sadder, that a young girl was familiar with the rites of sexual activity, and agreed to be used in such a dehumanising way, speaks volumes for the family background, the community and the society in which she lives. (Hey, she was willing. Let’s ignore the rapists. The society in which they lived? Who cares? Let’s talk obsessively about the victim and what she did wrong.) > > Now if I need to make it clearer, again, the animals who abused this little girl need to go away for a long, long time. They need to be shown the error of their ways, forcibly if necessary. **But it is also incumbent upon the ‘victims’ (the girl, her family and her community) to look within themselves as to how to prevent this sort of shit happening in the future.** > > \*\*This was not a child snatched from a bedroom and taken away to be gang-raped by strangers: this was a child who engaged with her abusers voluntarily, and suffered the worst possible consequences. And at some point, she and her family are going to have to face some pretty challenging issues…I hope sooner rather than later. \*\* Blah blah blah blah blah standard disclaimers…now she’s not blaming the victim, you know, but the only people she really brings up is the victim and what she did wrong and what she needs to change. The rapists? Oh, put them away, that’s the end of it. So tell me, Kambuctka, why won’t you talk about rapists of little girls? Why are you so stupid you don’t understand that in any altercation between a little girl and an adult, the adult is to blame? Why do you want to ignore rapists? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/27 "2011-03-14T07:30:01Z")
Let’s take a look at an obvious analogy to what **kambucta** is talking about. Years ago I saw a performance by Bill Cosby in which he, after taking karate lessons and feeling invincible, decided to go walking down dark alleys in bad parts of town with money hanging out of his pockets in order to provoke someone into attempting to rob him. Now, it is obvious in this scenario that walking alone down a dark alley in a bad part of town with money hanging out of your pockets is a risky thing to do. Now, would you contend that had Cosby been robbed, would you claim that his own actions played no role whatsoever in his being robbed? ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/28 "2011-03-14T08:22:08Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Now, it is obvious in this scenario that walking alone down a dark alley in a bad part of town with money hanging out of your pockets is a risky thing to do. > > Now, would you contend that had Cosby been robbed, would you claim that his own actions played no role whatsoever in his being robbed? It is obvious that in the scenario of walking alone down a dark alley in a “bad part of town” with money _in your pockets_ is a risky thing to do. What actions would you claim played a role, had he been robbed in that scenario? ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/29 "2011-03-14T08:32:18Z")
**margin** , I’ve reported post #26 for your sleazy inclusion of quoted words that were not present in my original post. That’s very naughty you know. Bad **margin.** Oh, and please, I’ve been here nearly 10 years now: won’t SOMEONE learn how to spell my name correctly? 😃 Now you **margin** can take your snot-dribbling, shit-spewing, illiterate ravings to your room. AND STAY THERE. When you’ve learned to comprehend simple statements without going off like a shrill banshee, we might let you back. Or maybe not. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/30 "2011-03-14T08:37:39Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Oh, and please, I’ve been here nearly 10 years now: won’t SOMEONE learn how to spell my name correctly? 😃 Thrakazog? ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/31 "2011-03-14T08:44:21Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Thrakazog? I might approach the mods for a name-change, thanks fer’ the suggestion **Finygen**. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/32 "2011-03-14T09:54:22Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I thought she was said to have had a 19-year-old boyfriend who she appeared to have been having sex with. If the news reports are correct, then you too are correct SA. I have been working on that information as well: it makes a huge difference, not in the condemnation of the perps (that stands as given), but in the possible healing for the victim. I think our precious little **margin** might have glossed over that fact somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/33 "2011-03-14T10:33:41Z")
Thanks, **kambuckta**. (Sorry about hosing up your name. :)) And yeah, I think **margin** sees only what she wants to see and turns a blind eye to anything that doesn’t fit. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/34 "2011-03-14T11:11:21Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Yeah, it’s so unreasonable to be offended by the slut-shaming of an 11 year old gang rape victim. How irrational. Three things: [ol] [li]By definition, an emotional outburst is irrational. Being offended is inherently irrational. It’s something based on our emotions, not based on the rational portion of our brain. Emotions are not rationally chosen. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with them, but they aren’t rational.[/li] [li]No one is slut-shaming anyone in that thread. Everyone is saying that kids need to be taught basic safety precautions, and need to be raised in an environment where they can confide in their parents. If anyone is being blamed besides the rapist, it is the parents, not the victim.[/li] [li] **margin** is not being pitted for disliking victim blaming. She(?) is being pitted for being stubborn and not listening to anyone in the thread. It would be fine to disagree with everyone if she could offer something more than _ad hominem_. And, yes, insulting someone to refute their argument is _ad hominem_, even if she never flat out says, “Your argument is wrong because you are an immoral person.” It’s been implied in everything she’s said in both that thread and this one. Is it surprising she’s pissing people off?[/li][/ol] And in response to your other post: being against child rape is not considered trolling. The trolling is telling people that they condone it. If there is anyone on this board who is actually for child rape, I’ll punch myself in the eye. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/35 "2011-03-14T11:42:56Z")
There are those here who have loyally tried to defend and excuse the large international organization most notable for enabling and protecting child rapists. Does that count? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/36 "2011-03-14T11:48:54Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And in response to your other post: being against child rape is not considered trolling. The trolling is telling people that they condone it. If there is anyone on this board who is actually for child rape, I’ll punch myself in the eye. Ooh, good thing **Cesario** was banned, or you’d be in trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/37 "2011-03-14T11:53:19Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > There are those here who have loyally tried to defend and excuse the large international organization most notable for enabling and protecting child rapists. Does that count? Who? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/38 "2011-03-14T11:59:29Z")
Most notably, and loyally, **Bricker**. No, I’m not going to search for any of those threads; I just showered. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/39 "2011-03-14T12:06:01Z")
A search on his name and that of the organization turns up no such posts. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/40 "2011-03-14T12:14:31Z")
> [@](#): > > I thought she was said to have had a 19-year-old boyfriend who she appeared to have been having sex with. She didn’t have a boyfriend. She had someone who was abusing her. 11 year olds don’t HAVE boyfriends, at that stage they MIGHT be dreaming about a romantic relationship with some male, but they are not emotionally mature enough to have real boyfriends. She might have enjoyed the attentions of this guy, and she might very well have been the subject of envy among her peers for having an adult take an interest in her. But he was screwing her because she was a child, he didn’t love her. And she wasn’t old enough to realize what he was doing to her. He wasn’t her boyfriend, so let’s just quit using that term. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610.md?page=3)