# margin is a freaking lunatic. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 14, 2011, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610 "2011-03-14T01:38:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/81 "2011-03-14T17:14:30Z")
As I ponder the events that occurred in Cleveland, I wonder if this wasn’t a case of small-town punks copying gang behavior. Sexing girls in (having prospects have sex with many male members) is done by some gangs, so is having girl gang members beat down female prospects as an initiation rite. This would explain the statement that they told her to get into the car or they would have some girls beat her up which seemed like odd threat. One would assume rapists would have no qualms aboaut threatening to do the beating themselves. I am now wondering if this girl was offered the initiation choice of a beat-down or a sex-up. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/82 "2011-03-14T17:23:32Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No she didn’t. She wasn’t capable. 11 year olds don’t “hang around” with adults. She was abducted by them. Every instance she was with that 19 year old was an abduction. Dio, one day you are going be robbed by 11 year old (or younger) at which point your ideas about the innocent of childred are going to shatter spectacularly. As children are capable of good and smart things, they are also capable of doing bad and stupid things like having sex for attention and approval. ---
**Author:** ![Electric\_Warrior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@Electric\_Warrior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Electric_Warrior)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/83 "2011-03-14T17:26:21Z")
Actually, let me expand on the point I made in reply to **Starving Artist**. In the hypothetical situation discussed in **Starving Artist** ’s post, Cosby is walking alone in a dark alley with money hanging out of his pockets. He subsequently gets robbed. In this situation, a crime was committed, and it was committed by the person who robbed Cosby. It isn’t Cosby’s _fault_ he was robbed, even if he could have made choices that would have potentially averted the robbery. The only person who made a choice that directly caused the robbery was the robber. I’m a small woman, and I’m not very strong. I live in a neighborhood with a fairly high crime rate. I know that it benefits me not to go out alone at night on blocks where a lot of crimes occur. But it’s not fair to say that as long as I avoid doing that, this is the solution to the crime problem. Crime isn’t a natural disaster. It’s 100% human element. The only real solution is one in which I can go out alone at night in this neighborhood without fear, because people have been _stopped from committing crimes_. I believe the same applies to rape. Yes, it’s possible to make choices that _may_ - but do not always - keep you safe from sexual assault. However, the only person at fault for an assault, under any circumstances\*, is the person who commits assault. \*barring the assault being committed under duress, i.e. “rape this person or I’ll shoot you”. That’s a more complicated situation and I don’t think it’s relevant anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Invisible\_Chimp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f05b48/32.png) [@Invisible\_Chimp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Invisible_Chimp)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/84 "2011-03-14T17:29:27Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > For an eleven year old? If you are dubious about that, you are an idiot. > > Regards, > Shodan Hamlet didn’t say having older boyfriends when you’re eleven. That’s what he meant, but not what he said. Maybe I should have added a smiley after the dubious. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/85 "2011-03-14T17:32:27Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I have answered your silly strawman in the other thread. > > Seriously, do you suffer from a mental illness? If so, say so and I will back off. > > Regards, > Shodan No, actually, Shodan, you didn’t. YOu issued your idiotic conservative talking points, then took a powder. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/86 "2011-03-14T17:33:54Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Dio, one day you are going be robbed by 11 year old (or younger) at which point your ideas about the innocent of childred are going to shatter spectacularly. As children are capable of good and smart things, they are also capable of doing bad and stupid things like having sex for attention and approval. Wow. You’re a despicable slimeball, even more so than you were in that thread. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/87 "2011-03-14T17:34:42Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No she didn’t. She wasn’t capable. 11 year olds don’t “hang around” with adults. She was abducted by them. Every instance she was with that 19 year old was an abduction. No 11yo ever voluntarily hung around with 19yo’s? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Invisible\_Chimp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f05b48/32.png) [@Invisible\_Chimp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Invisible_Chimp)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/88 "2011-03-14T17:35:17Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If nobody ever teaches a ten year old to look both ways before crossing the street, and he gets hit by a car and dies, it is not his fault. But it is perfectly legitimate to say, “Why didn’t anyone teach him to look both ways before crossing the street?” > > Is it an absolute guarantee that he will never die in a car accident if he looks both ways before crossing instead of dashing out into traffic? Of course not. Does that mean teaching children to avoid dangerous situations is worthless? > > Regards, > Shodan Your analogy is bad because hitting a kid crossing the street is an accident(usually) and rape is a deliberate act. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/89 "2011-03-14T17:37:17Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > No 11yo ever voluntarily hung around with 19yo’s? :dubious: Digression. Who cares? In this case, the 19-year-old was committing rape. There’s a huge degree of difference between eleven years old and nineteen years old. I cannot believe all the assholes who are trying to minimize this situation. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/90 "2011-03-14T17:40:05Z")
[quote=“Invisible\_Chimp, post:88, topic:574610”] Your analogy is bad because hitting a kid crossing the street is an accident(usually) and rape is a deliberate act.[/QUOTE And in this case, the car’s driver would have had to swerve to hit the kid, going up on the sidewalk, up the stairs, through the door, and so on to hit the kid. This was no accident, but look at all the people trying to examine what the victim did, still, that made her a rape victim. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/91 "2011-03-14T17:44:01Z")
> [@margin](#): > > Wow. You’re a despicable slimeball, even more so than you were in that thread. And you are so hopelessly naive I am surprised you haven’t sold your computer for some magic beans. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/92 "2011-03-14T17:45:26Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Dio, one day you are going be robbed by 11 year old (or younger) at which point your ideas about the innocent of childred are going to shatter spectacularly. What makes you think I don’t know anything about children? I lived in a 3rd world country where I saw kids doing things that would make American Crips and Bloods blanch with horror. I worked with inner city kids for years, and saw violent children as young as 9 or 10. In the neighborhood I worked, a 9 year old once led a gang rape of his 8 year old sister in an abandoned house. I know the kinds of _acts_ that children can do, but that doesn’t mean they have the same cognitive ability to understand their actions that an adult has, and in every case there is abuse, abandonment or neglect at the roots of these behaviors. I would never get robbed by an 11 year old, by the way. I’ve had adults try and fail. A kid ain’t gonna do it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/93 "2011-03-14T17:47:26Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > No 11yo ever voluntarily hung around with 19yo’s? :dubious: Don’t even start with this busllshit. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/94 "2011-03-14T17:48:22Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No she didn’t. She wasn’t capable. 11 year olds don’t “hang around” with adults. She was abducted by them. Every instance she was with that 19 year old was an abduction. Right, right - every time your daughter goes over to a friend’s house, she has been abducted. You’re nearly as dumb as **ZPG Zealot**. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/95 "2011-03-14T17:49:36Z")
> [@margin](#): > > Digression. Who cares? In this case, the 19-year-old was committing rape. There’s a huge degree of difference between eleven years old and nineteen years old. > > I cannot believe all the assholes who are trying to minimize this situation. I’m not minimising anything, I’m merely challenging Dio on one of his many _ex cathedra_ pronouncements. I hold anyone who’d rape an 11yo in staggering contempt, to the extent that it’s hard to imagine holding more for one who’d do it as part of a gang rape, and yet I’ll make the effort. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/96 "2011-03-14T17:49:59Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Right, right - every time your daughter goes over to a friend’s house, she has been abducted. You’re nearly as dumb as **ZPG Zealot**. > > Regards, > Shodan So much for Shodan’s superb conservative parenting advice. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/97 "2011-03-14T17:50:36Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Don’t even start with this busllshit. You started it, bub - and you’ve accurately labelled it. Your next line is “I never said that”, btw. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/98 "2011-03-14T17:50:56Z")
If my daughter is at a friend’s house, the friend is the same age. When a 19 year old takes an 11 year old girl into a car and drives her off to rape her, it’s an abduction every time. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/99 "2011-03-14T17:51:31Z")
> [@Invisible\_Chimp](#): > > Your analogy is bad because hitting a kid crossing the street is an accident(usually) and rape is a deliberate act. Irrelevant. Both are bad outcomes whose likelihood can be substantially reduced by teaching your kids to act with a little common sense. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/100 "2011-03-14T17:51:42Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > And you are so hopelessly naive I am surprised you haven’t sold your computer for some magic beans. Christ, you’re issuing warnings about how ferocious and bloodthirsty eleven-year-olds are. Naivete is not the issue here. How stupid you are is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610.md?page=6)