# margin is a freaking lunatic. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 14, 2011, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610 "2011-03-14T01:38:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/161 "2011-03-14T22:18:48Z")
Ah, [I thought that I remembered Margin from somewhere.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=297511&highlight=rape) The crazy starts in post 3. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/162 "2011-03-14T22:19:00Z")
> [@margin](#): > > Did the victim point a gun at any of the rapists and make them penetrate her? No, but Kambuctka’s got some interesting thoughts, interlaced with the usual excuses. > Lie to yourself, honey, it ain’t working with anybody but the rapist apologists. > > In post number 34, she opines: > > \*\* > > Blah blah blah blah blah standard disclaimers…now she’s not blaming the victim, you know, but the only people she really brings up is the victim and what she did wrong and what she needs to change. The rapists? Oh, put them away, that’s the end of it. > > So tell me, Kambuctka, why won’t you talk about rapists of little girls? Why are you so stupid you don’t understand that in any altercation between a little girl and an adult, the adult is to blame? Why do you want to ignore rapists? **margin** , please do not alter another poster’s words inside a quote box. No warning issued. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/163 "2011-03-14T23:53:12Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > I unask your question: \*\*margin \*\*is insane because of the sum total of her participation on this board, which includes gems like “believing the word ‘hysterical’ is inherently insulting to women”. I don’t think unasking is the same as just being non-responsive, but OK, I guess. **olivesmarch4th** , I’ll take your word for it about the jokes, even though I don’t think we’re talking about the same ones. My point is that whether or not **margin** flew off the handle, she also raised a valid point, and one that is persistent across threads on the subject. Whether she was out of line or not, she’s being called out for “lying” about what was going on in that thread. And she wasn’t lying. She’s not a lunatic. She just wasn’t respectful about it. And it doesn’t seem like - has never seemed like - a majority of those involved want to acknowledge that what she’s mad about is a real thing. Which, and I’m not a psychologist or anything, but maybe is why she’s mad in the first place. I’m not going to act like that’s particularly scandalous. People are assholes to each other over trivial things they aren’t even _right_ about all the time around here. If she’s being an asshole, at least she’s picking the right battle. What do you really think the thread would’ve looked like without her participation? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/164 "2011-03-15T00:08:35Z")
Point taken, **Jimmy**. I’ve just never found being an asshole to be a very effective persuasive technique. She is mad about a real thing; it’s understandable. But I think when a person uses a ridiculous over-the-top approach, they risk undermining the message itself.\* \*so I’ve learned the hard way ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/165 "2011-03-15T00:15:44Z")
I think that you’re absolutely right about that, and there’s really no argument that **margin** was being effective. That’s why I want to talk about it. Or want somebody else to talk about it, rather. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/166 "2011-03-15T00:53:42Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > She is mad about a real thing; it’s understandable. Sure, she IS mad about a real thing, but she did **not** encounter any victim-bashing in the original thread. Multiple attempts to show her that what she was accusing many of us (myself included) of was not implied nor intended were met with the _'LA LA LA got my fingers in my ears I CANT HEAR YOU"_ approach. Her other charming technique is to say (words to the effect of)..“I know you didn’t _say_ that, but that’s what you really meant didn’t you???” Yep, that’s gonna win people over every time. Victim-blaming does certainly occur in our societies, and it’s a loathesome thing. Nobody asks to be raped, nobody deserves to be raped, and especially in the case of children there are no ifs or buts at all: they are completely blameless. But that should not preclude us looking at ways to avoid such crimes in the future. And in this case, the little girl’s family and her immediate community let her down so horrendously, that they should be held to account too. Certainly, they did not rape the child, but with more care and attention given, perhaps this crime _might_ have been averted. Now that is not to say that ALL child rapes are the result of parental inattention, but if the information we’ve read about this case is true, then it seems that this little girl was a very sad event waiting to happen. And all around the world, there’s more little girls and boys being horrifically abused because basically nobody gives a shit about where they are and what they’re doing. If this means I’m ‘blaming the victim’, then just wow. I’m gobsmacked. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/167 "2011-03-15T01:30:31Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > I don’t think unasking is the same as just being non-responsive, but OK, I guess. I can only speak for my own contribution, which is unrelated to any posts in the current thread under discussion–thus, I don’t need to read posts from the current discussion to talk about \*\*margin \*\*being insane. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/168 "2011-03-15T01:48:11Z")
I think the rapists are bad people. There. I said it. Now to run shrieking away before someone discusses it. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/169 "2011-03-15T02:37:52Z")
For a bunch of guys who think they’re well informed, do you assholes even listen to yourself? Shrieking, harpies, banshee, batshit, blah blah blah, we DID SO, and so on. But you were bashing an eleven year old rape victim and now you’re just bashing me, so threatening is it to have your cozy little views about rape threatened. And your ignorance about sexist tropes and phrases is just about as bad as your ignorance about rape. You don’t read, you don’t listen, and you attack when you should shut up and listen. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/170 "2011-03-15T02:50:12Z")
> [@margin](#): > > For a bunch of guys who think they’re well informed, do you assholes even listen to yourself? Shrieking, harpies, banshee, batshit, blah blah blah, we DID SO, and so on. But you were bashing an eleven year old rape victim and now you’re just bashing me, so threatening is it to have your cozy little views about rape threatened. And your ignorance about sexist tropes and phrases is just about as bad as your ignorance about rape. You don’t read, you don’t listen, and you attack when you should shut up and listen. Good grief you’re stupid. Take **Shodan’s** advice and up yer’ meds sweetheart. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/171 "2011-03-15T02:56:22Z")
> [@Invisible\_Chimp](#): > > What’s to discuss? How about how were these monsters made? How do we stop more of these monsters from being made? That’s a few things we could be talking about instead of the victim’s “boyfriend” or what background she came from. So far, most of what I’ve seen is pointing out what the victim did wrong. She “chose” to have a 19 year old “boyfriend”, for instance. Except that really, she didn’t. She might have been hanging around a 19 year old, but I am sure that the sexual relationship wasn’t her idea, unless she had previously been sexually abused. Even so, even if she climbed into his lap and started dancing and french kissing him, I will STILL put 99.999% of the blame of sexual activity on HIM. Why did he think it was OK to have sex with a child? Is there anything that society can do to prevent other people from thinking it’s OK to have sex with a child? What sort of punishment should he receive, and what sort of punishment should the others in the gang receive? I think that’s what we should be discussing. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/172 "2011-03-15T03:11:41Z")
> [@margin](#): > > For a bunch of guys who think they’re well informed, do you assholes even listen to yourself? Shrieking, harpies, banshee, batshit, blah blah blah, we DID SO, and so on. But you were bashing an eleven year old rape victim and now you’re just bashing me, so threatening is it to have your cozy little views about rape threatened. OK, now I’m beginning to feel whooshed. If so, well played. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/173 "2011-03-15T03:12:47Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > So far, most of what I’ve seen is pointing out what the victim did wrong. She “chose” to have a 19 year old “boyfriend”, for instance. Except that really, she didn’t. She might have been hanging around a 19 year old, but I am sure that the sexual relationship wasn’t her idea, unless she had previously been sexually abused. Even so, even if she climbed into his lap and started dancing and french kissing him, I will STILL put 99.999% of the blame of sexual activity on HIM. Why did he think it was OK to have sex with a child? Is there anything that society can do to prevent other people from thinking it’s OK to have sex with a child? What sort of punishment should he receive, and what sort of punishment should the others in the gang receive? I think that’s what we should be discussing. I think the issue is that most people jump immediately to “The perpetrators are sociopathic nutbars; lock them up and lose the keys.”, and don’t have much more to say, or any particular need to say it. For me, at least, “People who gang-rape 11-year-olds are dangerous criminals and should be locked up.” sounds a lot like I’m offering a [vigorous defense against kitten-burners](http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slacktivist/2008/10/false-witnesses-2.html). Perhaps people would be more reassured if we did preface our posts with “The perpetrators of gang rape are heinous criminals deserving of harsh judicial penalties, and here’s something else…”, but I think it’s pretty understood. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/174 "2011-03-15T05:07:17Z")
> [@robertliguori](#): > > I think the issue is that most people jump immediately to “The perpetrators are sociopathic nutbars; lock them up and lose the keys.”, and don’t have much more to say, or any particular need to say it. For me, at least, “People who gang-rape 11-year-olds are dangerous criminals and should be locked up.” sounds a lot like I’m offering a [vigorous defense against kitten-burners](http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slacktivist/2008/10/false-witnesses-2.html). > > Perhaps people would be more reassured if we did preface our posts with “The perpetrators of gang rape are heinous criminals deserving of harsh judicial penalties, and here’s something else…”, but I think it’s pretty understood. Yeah, exactly. What the hell do you say about rapists except “execute them when convicted, move on”? And then there’s **margin** , who is apparently on a one-woman crusade to make all men feel bad about themselves. Reminds me of the idiots in college who threw guys who came in solidarity out of the Take Back the Night marches, because it had to be a woman-only thing. Or the urinal labels they’d fund for all the men’s restrooms–“You hold the power to stop rape in your hands”\*. As though a rapist is going to be convinced by a goddamn platitude in a urinal. Hell, I appreciate what **margin** ’s trying to do, but it’s like every other flaming loud demagogue on the board–trying to catch flies with vinegar has not ever worked. Hell, there are a number of women who have expressed similar thoughts to her that AREN’T getting this treatment and ARE getting listened to, because they’re not flaming demagogues–half the time, she lights into them too (like she did to \*\*SFG \*\*in the Roethlisberger thread) for daring to disagree with her vitriol. I could link the records from when my testimony aided in two rape convictions and it wouldn’t change a thing in her views of me, because I DARED complain about a rape charge remaining unproven, and suggest that you have to goddamn prosecute a rapist to prosecute them. Awaiting a declaration that “vitriol”, “flaming”, and “demagogue” are words specifically showing how misogynist I am in three…two…one… - One of my friends reactions seems apropos: “The only way what’s in my hands has the power to stop rape is if I somehow manage to beat a rapist to death with my penis. Which would be awesome.” ---
**Author:** ![madrabbitwoman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c37758/32.png) [@madrabbitwoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madrabbitwoman)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/175 "2011-03-15T07:50:24Z")
> [@Electric\_Warrior](#): > > Actually, let me expand on the point I made in reply to **Starving Artist**. > > In the hypothetical situation discussed in **Starving Artist** ’s post, Cosby is walking alone in a dark alley with money hanging out of his pockets. He subsequently gets robbed. In this situation, a crime was committed, and it was committed by the person who robbed Cosby. It isn’t Cosby’s _fault_ he was robbed, even if he could have made choices that would have potentially averted the robbery. The only person who made a choice that directly caused the robbery was the robber. > > I’m a small woman, and I’m not very strong. I live in a neighborhood with a fairly high crime rate. I know that it benefits me not to go out alone at night on blocks where a lot of crimes occur. But it’s not fair to say that as long as I avoid doing that, this is the solution to the crime problem. Crime isn’t a natural disaster. It’s 100% human element. The only real solution is one in which I can go out alone at night in this neighborhood without fear, because people have been _stopped from committing crimes_. > > I believe the same applies to rape. Yes, it’s possible to make choices that _may_ - but do not always - keep you safe from sexual assault. However, the only person at fault for an assault, under any circumstances\*, is the person who commits assault. > > \*barring the assault being committed under duress, i.e. “rape this person or I’ll shoot you”. That’s a more complicated situation and I don’t think it’s relevant anyway. This is one of the most sensible posts here ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/176 "2011-03-15T10:14:16Z")
Yup. The kitten burning comment was good too. Damn kitten burners. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/177 "2011-03-15T12:07:26Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > As though a rapist is going to be convinced by a goddamn platitude in a urinal. A local church places tracts on the urinals in our (public) restroom. Apparently we hold the power to find Jesus in our hands. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/178 "2011-03-15T12:42:24Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > And she wasn’t lying. She’s not a lunatic. Yes, she was lying, and yes, she is a lunatic. > [@](#): > > And it doesn’t seem like - has never seemed like - a majority of those involved want to acknowledge that what she’s mad about is a real thing. Rape is certainly a real thing, and so is blaming the victim. Part of the problem is that **margin** cannot acknowledge that there is a significant difference between blaming the victim, and saying “why didn’t her parents spot that she was heading down a very bad road?” **margin** can’t see the difference - can you? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/179 "2011-03-15T12:51:37Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Not too very long ago we had a thread titled something like “Ask the Rape Victim”. I, and a few other posters, came in early and said (basically), “Good luck with this; the SDMB isn’t a good place for these discussions. There are a lot of rape apologists.” After that a lot of posters showed up and basically said, “What the heck? Really?” and asking for instances of this problem. > > When I read that other thread (and this one) i thought, “I am going to bookmark these for next time,” but I realized that it would make no difference. Some people refuse to see these discussions and disgusting, or even problematic. There is no way to convince them of anything. > > A long time ago I resolved to quit reading anything to do with rape or sexism on these boards, because it made me hate so many posters, and not want to read anything on here any more. I think I need to be more vigilant about that again, or leave the boards altogether. This is all so disappointing. I completely agree with this, and with **Jimmy Chitwood** ’s observation that threads about this topic on the SDMB are disgustingly predictable. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610/180 "2011-03-15T13:12:44Z")
> [@SecondJudith](#): > > I completely agree with this You agree completely with the uncited, absurd, counter-factual claims about the nest of “rape apologists” who lurk on the Dope? Okay. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/margin-is-a-freaking-lunatic/574610.md?page=10)