# Marguerite Pegged **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [December 1, 2006, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marguerite-pegged/382478 "2006-12-01T16:05:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![device](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/74df32/32.png) [@device](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/device)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2006, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marguerite-pegged/382478/1 "2006-12-01T16:05:52Z")
Hi Cécil, First thought I’d bring the French flower to your attention, irritatiing little prat that I am, but now, due to your diligence I can only add this: My mother, the quite Englishly named: Margaret Elizabeth goes by “Bunny.” No one has ever been able to explain why. Up to the task, anyone? Sincerely, d² ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2006, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marguerite-pegged/382478/2 "2006-12-01T16:21:53Z")
Welcome to the SDMB, device. A link to the column is appreciated. Providing one can be as simple as pasting the URL into your post, making sure to leave a blank space on either side of it. Like so: [www.straightdope.com/classics/a3\_268.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_268.html) ---
**Author:** ![SiXSwordS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@SiXSwordS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SiXSwordS)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2006, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marguerite-pegged/382478/3 "2006-12-01T17:34:27Z")
I’ll have to admit that I didn’t know how to spell Magritte and thought this would be a prurient thread about the surrealist painter. As for Bunny, I suspect it falls into that category of nicknames that anyone can have. I know several people who go by Butch, for example, and none of them shares the same first name. Likewise with Bud. I’ve always thought it odd that the name John becomes Jack. I suspect it comes form the name John being so common that there has to be some way to distinguish to whom one is speaking. ---
**Author:** ![Alive\_At\_Both\_Ends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Alive\_At\_Both\_Ends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alive_At_Both_Ends)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2006, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marguerite-pegged/382478/4 "2006-12-01T18:39:20Z")
[QUOTE=SiXSwordS] I’ve always thought it odd that the name John becomes Jack. I suspect it comes form the name John being so common that there has to be some way to distinguish to whom one is speaking. [/QUOTE] The name John arrived in England with the Normans, as Jan or Johan. It was one of a number of names which were modified in a number of ways - one of which was by adding a suffix to form a diminutive. One such suffix was -kin; add that to Jan and you get Jankin, which in some dialects became Jackin. From there it’s a small step to Jack. ---
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2006, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marguerite-pegged/382478/5 "2006-12-01T18:59:45Z")
[QUOTE=device] goes by “Bunny.” No one has ever been able to explain why. [/QUOTE] Coz she goes at it like a rabbit? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![SiXSwordS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@SiXSwordS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SiXSwordS)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2006, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marguerite-pegged/382478/6 "2006-12-01T19:11:07Z")
I guess I had associated it with the Jack in a deck of cards. I’ve found links (wikipedia) that claim that ‘Jack’ in cards comes the French for ‘Valet.’ Jack replaced the term Knave in cards in about the 1500’s as near as I can tell so obviously the Norman Conquest beats that by about 500 years. But I have to wonder if ‘Jack’ as a general Nickname applicable to any young man came along with Jan and Johan. ---
**Author:** ![Gymnopithys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@Gymnopithys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gymnopithys)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2006, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marguerite-pegged/382478/7 "2006-12-01T21:02:59Z")
You won’t get away by dodging the question, Cecil. The answer is much more interesting: Margaret originally was a nickname for a girl marked with spots. The root is marg- widespread in several European languages, especially Romance languages. A few examples among many: Provençal margoulha to paint Basque margo paint Basque margaita daisy Italian marga marl French margot magpie; regional margot a pied cow Spanish margay a spotted animal of the cat family French (regional) marge a kind of snail Latin margella coral English (regional) margery, margioulet (for marge owlet) Barn Owl Greek margaron pearl Latin margarita pearl French marguerite ladybug; a proper name Romanian margarita ladybug Catalan margarida ladybug and various flowers Spanish (regional) margarita Magpie English margaret Magpie etc., and I’ll spare you the list of dozens of spotted birds, insects, flowers, like marigold, English (regional) mark (Magpie), Spanish mariposa butterfly… Peggy also derives from a root peg- “spotted”: Portuguese pêga Magpie English (regional) peggy, peg-pie Magpie English (regional) peggy-wagtail White Wagtail English (regional) jar-peg Great Spotted Woodpecker French (Alsace) speg Magpie Russian peganka variegated etc., many more Now the relation Margaret \> Peggy becomes apparent. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2006, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marguerite-pegged/382478/8 "2006-12-01T22:08:44Z")
[QUOTE=Gymnopithys] Margaret originally was a nickname for a girl marked with spots. [/QUOTE] Source? The evidence suggests that the name _Margaret_ comes from μαργᾰρίτης (_margarites_), Greek for “pearl”. Note that the Gawayn poet (late 14th century) uses _margary_ as a synonym for “pearl”. French _marguerite_ (“daisy”) may have been an intermediate step, but note that _marguerite_ meant “pearl”, as well as “daisy”, in Old French. I cannot find any evidence that the word ever meant “spotted” at all. The “magpie” branch of meanings derives from the _Margaret_ family of names, and the European magpie, _Pica pica_ (I’m sure Magpie specialists hate _Pokémon_ with a passion) isn’t spotted, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2006, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marguerite-pegged/382478/9 "2006-12-04T18:39:14Z")
> [@Cecil](#): > > Margaret and marguerite do have a common source, the Latin margarita, pearl. And I’m told that about a hundred years ago, my great-grandmother, Margaet Ripon, was known to all and sundry as “Pearl.” ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2006, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marguerite-pegged/382478/10 "2006-12-04T21:39:49Z")
Uhh, _Marga **r** et_, that is. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marguerite-pegged/382478/11 "2006-12-05T00:15:10Z")
My mother’s name is Margaret. She is the most even tempered woman I know. But don’t call her Madge. Don’t call her Peggy. Although she won’t say a thing we can see it in her eyes. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![tashabot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tashabot/32/6250_2.png) [@tashabot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tashabot)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marguerite-pegged/382478/12 "2006-12-05T03:33:53Z")
Okay, I get Margaret - Peg. Can someone explain Richard = Dick? (or if there was a previous post about this, link me - the search function seems to be on the fritz for me right now, though…) ~Tasha ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marguerite-pegged/382478/13 "2006-12-05T04:58:15Z")
[QUOTE=tashabot] Can someone explain Richard = Dick? [/QUOTE] It goes back to the Middle Ages, so it’s not particularly clear. The best I can suggest is that nicknames formed _merely_ by dropping a terminal syllable or two, no matter how “normal” they seem to English speakers of the present day, are not, taking a broad and long view, all that standard. Real nicknames follow more complex patterns than that. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marguerite-pegged/382478/14 "2006-12-05T06:16:49Z")
It’s a two strp process: 1. Shorten a name to 1 syllable. 2. Make a nickname that rhymes with that. Thus: Richard -\> Rick -\> Dick Margaret -\> Meg -\> Peg Edward -\> Ed -\> Ted Robert -\> Rob -\> Bob ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marguerite-pegged/382478/15 "2006-12-05T07:14:50Z")
[quote] **Peter** : Margaret -\> Meg -\> Peg Interesting theory, but I suspect Peg is derived from Peggy and not Meg. ---
**Author:** ![tashabot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tashabot/32/6250_2.png) [@tashabot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tashabot)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marguerite-pegged/382478/16 "2006-12-05T17:07:25Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] Richard -\> Rick -\> Dick Margaret -\> Meg -\> Peg Edward -\> Ed -\> Ted Robert -\> Rob -\> Bob [/QUOTE] That actually makes a lot of sense. Thanks. (Not being sarcastic, I always wondered…) ~Tasha ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marguerite-pegged/382478/17 "2006-12-05T19:57:22Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] > [@](#): > > **Peter** : Margaret -\> Meg -\> Peg > > Interesting theory, but I suspect Peg is derived from Peggy and not Meg. Why? By the usual English processes, “Peggy” is more likely to be a nickname for “Peg” than the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![Gymnopithys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@Gymnopithys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gymnopithys)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2006, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marguerite-pegged/382478/18 "2006-12-06T08:55:43Z")
Ted is for Theodore ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2006, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marguerite-pegged/382478/19 "2006-12-06T11:37:36Z")
[QUOTE=Gymnopithys] Ted is for Theodore [/QUOTE] And for Edward. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2006, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marguerite-pegged/382478/20 "2006-12-06T14:20:24Z")
[QUOTE=cazzle] And for Edward. [/QUOTE] “Can I call you Eddie-Baby?” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marguerite-pegged/382478.md?page=2)