# Mariah Carey being sued by Vince Vance over "All I Want for Christmas is You" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [June 5, 2022, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mariah-carey-being-sued-by-vince-vance-over-all-i-want-for-christmas-is-you/965683 "2022-06-05T01:05:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2022, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mariah-carey-being-sued-by-vince-vance-over-all-i-want-for-christmas-is-you/965683/1 "2022-06-05T01:05:23Z")
Love it or hate it, there’s no denying the mass appeal of Mariah Carey’s seminal Christmas hit “All I Want for Christmas is You”. Released in 1994, it’s the one and only holiday song to have sold 10 million or more copies in the United States, earning Diamond distinction. It has set chart records for the genre, though it didn’t actually achieve #1 on the Hot 100 until 2019. And now Vince Vance, of Vince Vance and the Valiants, is suing Carey for copyright infringement and misappropriation for stealing the… title of his song, which came out 5 years earlier, also features a female singer, and in no other way, shape, or form, resembles the mega-hit. (But you don’t have to take _my_ word for it: You can listen to the Vince Vance version in the attached article). > **[Mariah Carey sued over "All I Want For Christmas Is You"](https://www.msn.com/en-us/music/news/mariah-carey-sued-over-mega-successful-holiday-earworm-all-i-want-for-christmas-is-you/ar-AAY5FNN?bk=1&ocid=msedgntp&cvid=afe18f5495a043ce82c743c137ae761f)** > > Vince Vance alleges that Carey exploited the “popularity and unique style” of his 1989 song of the same name He wants $20 million in restitution. Really? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2022, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mariah-carey-being-sued-by-vince-vance-over-all-i-want-for-christmas-is-you/965683/2 "2022-06-05T01:09:03Z")
The news stories I have read about this case—including by the Washington Post and CNN—are so badly written as to be gibberish. I’ll wait for more information before I can actually form an opinion. As reported, the claims are extremely weak. However, the way the articles are written also makes it clear that the writers and editors don’t actually understand intellectual property, so I won’t rely on them. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2022, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mariah-carey-being-sued-by-vince-vance-over-all-i-want-for-christmas-is-you/965683/3 "2022-06-05T01:11:11Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > He wants $20 million in restitution. Okay, Sally. > **Summary** > > [YARN | You owe me restitution! | It's the Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown (1966) | Video clips by quotes | c201dbcb | 紗](https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/c201dbcb-1045-4eaf-a66b-f6fff20045ae) (eta: Hid that because it turned out to be animated as an embed.) ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2022, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mariah-carey-being-sued-by-vince-vance-over-all-i-want-for-christmas-is-you/965683/4 "2022-06-05T01:13:29Z")
I thought it was settled law that you can’t copyright a title. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2022, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mariah-carey-being-sued-by-vince-vance-over-all-i-want-for-christmas-is-you/965683/5 "2022-06-05T01:15:21Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > The news stories I have read about this case—including by the Washington Post and CNN—are so badly written as to be gibberish. I’ll wait for more information before I can actually form an opinion. Yeah, the article I posted to just wanted to make fun of the plaintiff. This article is a little better. > **[Mariah Carey sued for copyright over 'All I want for Christmas is You'](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61688826)** > > A US singer says he co-wrote a song called 'All I want for Christmas is You' five years before Carey's 1994 hit. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2022, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mariah-carey-being-sued-by-vince-vance-over-all-i-want-for-christmas-is-you/965683/6 "2022-06-05T01:18:15Z")
Here’s the short answer: [You can’t copyright a title.](https://www.writersdigest.com/copyrights/can-you-copyright-a-title#:~:text=A%3A%20Copyrights%20cover%20works%20fixed,you%20the%20protection%20you%20seek.) Otherwise Ringo Starr, Def Leppard, Nickelback, and Ed Sheeran would be tied up in eternal litigation over their songs called _Photograph_. ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2022, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mariah-carey-being-sued-by-vince-vance-over-all-i-want-for-christmas-is-you/965683/7 "2022-06-05T01:20:29Z")
Without going into the merits, or lack of, the lawsuit, I’d just like to say that the Mariah Carey song irritates the hell out of me because whenever I’m trying to find the Vince Vance song on YouTube I have to wade through umpteen listings of the Mariah Carey version unless I remember to specify Vance. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2022, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mariah-carey-being-sued-by-vince-vance-over-all-i-want-for-christmas-is-you/965683/8 "2022-06-05T01:20:55Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > Here’s the short answer: [You can’t copyright a title.](https://www.writersdigest.com/copyrights/can-you-copyright-a-title#:~:text=A%3A%20Copyrights%20cover%20works%20fixed,you%20the%20protection%20you%20seek.) Otherwise Ringo Starr, Def Leppard, Nickelback, and Ed Sheeran would be tied up in eternal litigation over their songs called _Photograph_. - I get the picture. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2022, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mariah-carey-being-sued-by-vince-vance-over-all-i-want-for-christmas-is-you/965683/9 "2022-06-05T01:22:15Z")
> [@LurkMeister](#): > > Without going into the merits, or lack of, the lawsuit, I’d just like to say that the Mariah Carey song irritates the hell out of me because whenever I’m trying to find the Vince Vance song on YouTube I have to wade through umpteen listings of the Mariah Carey version unless I remember to specify Vance. Proof of actual damages! Now plaintiff only needs to account for another $19,999,998 in damages and he’s in good shape. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2022, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mariah-carey-being-sued-by-vince-vance-over-all-i-want-for-christmas-is-you/965683/10 "2022-06-05T01:23:23Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > I get the picture. Snap. The legal situation seems black and white. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2022, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mariah-carey-being-sued-by-vince-vance-over-all-i-want-for-christmas-is-you/965683/11 "2022-06-05T01:43:11Z")
All as I understand it here and now (but things could change): Vance is suing for copyright infringement, which has no legs because his claim is that her song is a derivative work of his based on them sharing a title and an overarching theme. And that is patently ridiculous. Vance is also suing for unjust enrichment. This has wobbly, arthritic legs because a key element is lacking–any sort of artistic or business relationship between him and Carey. For this to work, he would have to show that Carey unfairly built off of his work to his detriment. Outside of the title and the extremely wide shared theme, I’m at a loss for how that can be. Best guess is that Vance’s claim is that Carey drove his song off the airwaves by putting out a vastly more popular song, a song that she would never have come up with on her own without his song preexisting. Or something. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2022, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mariah-carey-being-sued-by-vince-vance-over-all-i-want-for-christmas-is-you/965683/12 "2022-06-05T02:23:50Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > Here’s the short answer: [You can’t copyright a title.](https://www.writersdigest.com/copyrights/can-you-copyright-a-title#:~:text=A%3A%20Copyrights%20cover%20works%20fixed,you%20the%20protection%20you%20seek.) Otherwise Ringo Starr, Def Leppard, Nickelback, and Ed Sheeran would be tied up in eternal litigation over their songs called _Photograph_ . I refrained from making this the basis of an opinion, because it’s so obvious, that I would want to read the actual complaint before mocking the complaint on that basis. If he has a competent lawyer, then making a copyright claim on the basis of the title is practically unbelievable. So, I’m going to continue to refrain from analysis on the basis of the current news reports. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2022, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mariah-carey-being-sued-by-vince-vance-over-all-i-want-for-christmas-is-you/965683/13 "2022-06-05T02:33:22Z")
One wonders why the plaintiff waited 28 years to file this lawsuit. it’s not as though Carey’s song was a little-known recording until recently. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2022, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mariah-carey-being-sued-by-vince-vance-over-all-i-want-for-christmas-is-you/965683/14 "2022-06-05T02:34:50Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > One wonders why the plaintiff waited 28 years to file this lawsuit. > **[Money, Dear Boy - TV Tropes](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MoneyDearBoy)** > > Sometimes, undeniably famous, classical actors and actresses (or even loveable, talented, squeaky-clean child and/or teen actors/actresses) take roles in movies that are very against their type. Unlike the Classically Trained Extras, who lament … ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2022, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mariah-carey-being-sued-by-vince-vance-over-all-i-want-for-christmas-is-you/965683/15 "2022-06-05T02:34:54Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > This article is a little better. I noted this paragraph in the BBC article: > [@](#): > > It is not unusual for different songs to have the same name, and the United States Copyright Office lists 177 entries on its website under the title All I Want for Christmas is You. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2022, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mariah-carey-being-sued-by-vince-vance-over-all-i-want-for-christmas-is-you/965683/16 "2022-06-05T02:37:01Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > One wonders why the plaintiff waited 28 years to file this lawsuit. it’s not as though Carey’s song was a little-known recording until recently. Was gonna say exactly that… ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2022, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mariah-carey-being-sued-by-vince-vance-over-all-i-want-for-christmas-is-you/965683/17 "2022-06-05T02:37:52Z")
Well, yes, of course it’s about the money. The question is, why _now_? One wonders if Vance is in dire financial straits these days, and is trying this as a long-shot attempt to get some cash out of Carey’s camp. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2022, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mariah-carey-being-sued-by-vince-vance-over-all-i-want-for-christmas-is-you/965683/18 "2022-06-05T02:40:27Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I thought it was settled law that you can’t copyright a title. Exactly. Robert B. Parker wrote a novel with the same name as a short story of mine; my story was copyrighted first. But I have no case. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2022, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mariah-carey-being-sued-by-vince-vance-over-all-i-want-for-christmas-is-you/965683/19 "2022-06-05T02:41:44Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > One wonders why the plaintiff waited 28 years to file this lawsuit. it’s not as though Carey’s song was a little-known recording until recently. Probably took that long to find a lawyer that didn’t laugh him out of the office. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2022, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mariah-carey-being-sued-by-vince-vance-over-all-i-want-for-christmas-is-you/965683/20 "2022-06-05T02:42:41Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/CeWjEYhk7Xo/maxresdefault.jpg "Money (That's What I Want)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeWjEYhk7Xo) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mariah-carey-being-sued-by-vince-vance-over-all-i-want-for-christmas-is-you/965683.md?page=2)