# Marijuana states and drug dog searches **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 7, 2018, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marijuana-states-and-drug-dog-searches/808377 "2018-02-07T17:37:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marijuana-states-and-drug-dog-searches/808377/1 "2018-02-07T17:37:58Z")
What is being done is states where weed is legal and drug dogs are conducting searches? The dog can’t tell the handler what kind of drug is present, only that one of the ones he was trained to alert on is (or was). It seems to me that if the dog is, potentially, hitting on a legal substance you lose probable cause. New dogs will need to be trained without marijuana being one of the “alert” substances. I don’t know that the old ones can be un-trained. Maybe re-trained to give a different alert sign when what they smell is weed? Dig and scratch for everything else and stand on their head if its weed? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marijuana-states-and-drug-dog-searches/808377/2 "2018-02-07T17:50:06Z")
I don’t see the point in training them to give a different signal for weed, if weed is legal. AFAIK the dog will give the same signal (usually by sitting) if he smells anything he has been trained to sniff out - weed, meth, heroin, whatever. If he has been taught “find X, Y, or Z, and you get a dog treat” and X becomes legal, then you either need to get a new dog that has been taught that Y or Z = dog treat but ignore anything else, or re-train the old dog to ignore X. Retraining might be harder than getting a new dog. If the dog is trained to alert on marijuana, heroin, or meth, and he alerts but marijuana is legal, is that probable cause? I don’t know. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marijuana-states-and-drug-dog-searches/808377/3 "2018-02-07T19:05:48Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > What is being done is states where weed is legal and drug dogs are conducting searches? The dog can’t tell the handler what kind of drug is present, only that one of the ones he was trained to alert on is (or was). It seems to me that if the dog is, potentially, hitting on a legal substance you lose probable cause. > > New dogs will need to be trained without marijuana being one of the “alert” substances. I don’t know that the old ones can be un-trained. Maybe re-trained to give a different alert sign when what they smell is weed? Dig and scratch for everything else and stand on their head if its weed? They are switching to dogs that are not trained to detect marijuana. These places cover the most populated areas in Oregon. > [@](#): > > In addition to Springfield, police departments in Beaverton and Hillsboro, Oregon State Police and sheriff’s offices in Clackamas and Washington counties have joined the ranks of agencies accepting new dogs that detect only heroin, cocaine and meth - not pot. More is the linked article. Dogs cannot be untrained to detect pot so some are just being retired. > **[Marijuana-sniffing dogs on way out for some Oregon police agencies as pot...](https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/2015/01/marijuana-sniffing_dogs_on_way.html)** > > At least 6 Oregon police agencies have decided to phased out or reassign dogs trained to find marijuana as state voters legalized recreational use of up to half a pound of the drug last November. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marijuana-states-and-drug-dog-searches/808377/4 "2018-02-07T19:13:39Z")
If the dog is trained to indicate legal drugs and illegal drugs equally it does raise the question if that is enough to have reasonable suspicion to continue the search. I would say it is not. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marijuana-states-and-drug-dog-searches/808377/5 "2018-02-07T19:26:54Z")
Colorado: The stuff is legal, but it’s not treated the same way as bubble gum, or even whiskey. For instance, you can’t buy more than an ounce/day. If the dog indicates “something” a conversation with the LEO will follow. “So, what 'cha got in there? Let’s have a look.” Even if the answer is. “Oh, that’s just my grass, man!” LEO still has a reasonable (says I) cause to verify it is in fact Devil’s Lettuce and not smack. Upon review confirming only weed, but like 6 pounds of it, then another sort of conversation can take place. And maybe the hippie can offer a plausible explanation for why he needs all 6 pounds–purchased one ounce at a time, hand-to-God–on his person, at that time, and in such an environment given to dog inspections, that does NOT equate to illegal distribution. But it’s a legitimate opportunity for the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marijuana-states-and-drug-dog-searches/808377/6 "2018-02-07T19:54:42Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > If the dog is trained to indicate legal drugs and illegal drugs equally it does raise the question if that is enough to have reasonable suspicion to continue the search. I would say it is not. [This is the least of our problems with drug dogs](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2015/08/04/federal-appeals-court-drug-dog-thats-barely-more-accurate-than-a-coin-flip-is-good-enough/?utm_term=.02c027ced347). Most of them aren’t very accurate at all and are simply being trained to alert whenever police want them to, whether there are actually any drugs or not. If dogs are alerting when no drugs are present 40% of the time, it hardly seems like a bigger deal that they also alert when legal drugs are present. > [@](#): > > In 2013, the Supreme Court made things worse in Florida v. Harris. In that case, the court unanimously ruled that mere certification of a drug dog was enough to establish a presumption that a drug dog is reliable, regardless of the reputation of the certifying organization, regardless of whether that organization understands and appreciates the importance of training dogs to ignore their handlers’ suspicions, and regardless of the dog’s performance in the real world. > > In U.S. v. Bentley, we see just how damaging the Harris decision really was. Lex, the drug dog that searched Bentley’s car, had a 93 percent alert rate. That is, when Lex was called to search a car, he alerted 93 percent of the time. He was basically a probable cause generator. His success rate was much lower, at 59 percent. That is, the police actually found drugs just six of the 10 times Lex told them they would. That means that four of every 10 people Lex alerted to were subjected to a thorough roadside search that produced nothing illegal. > > It gets worse. Even a dog that was well trained initially can be conditioned to pick up bad habits once it’s in the field. This is exactly what was happening with Lex. It turns out that Lex’s handler gives the dog a reward every time he alerts, regardless of whether that alert is accurate. Lex isn’t getting rewarded for filtering innocent motorists from guilty ones. He’s being trained to authorize a search, each and every time he’s called to duty. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2018, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marijuana-states-and-drug-dog-searches/808377/7 "2018-02-08T14:50:16Z")
Yeah, not every drug dog is a highly trained Lassie-type. In college I was part of a caravan of [del]dirty hippies [/del] upstanding young students on a road trip, and we got pulled over. The cops dilly-dallied around until the “K-9 unit” could arrive. We [del] were scared shitless [/del] had nothing to worry about, of course. When the “K9 unit” finally appeared, they opened the door to let out … a golden retriever. Who promptly took a shit next to the cop car. (Trained service dogs usually don’t defecate at the possible crime scene.) The dog was yawning, obviously woken from a sound sleep, and not at all alert & focused on the task. To absolutely nobody’s surprise, the dog didn’t find anything or alert the handler (not that we had anything of interest, oh no sirreebob!) and I remain convinced to this day that one of the cops simply answered the dispatch call with the family pet in tow, as a bluff, to see who’d start sweating & stammering. ---
**Author:** ![busterpickle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@busterpickle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/busterpickle)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2018, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marijuana-states-and-drug-dog-searches/808377/8 "2018-02-08T15:24:38Z")
I did some research about this, but not necessarily drugs, rather tracking. Dogs do have a greater perception in regards to “smell” but it’s not equal across the board, some chemical components they might be twice as sensitive and others they might be 100. Also, dogs do not “visualize” or “see” smell as brain scans indicated that nothing related to visual stimulation was going on. Another huge factor is the dog and how rested it is. If it’s been a long day, the dog will be fatigued and just like us, not as “there”. Second, the environment, if it’s dry it’s harder to detect chemicals versus humid. By and large, dogs are not machines and their accuracy is nowhere near 100%, more along the lines of greater than half the time. However, there is no other portable, electro-mechanical analog available at this time, so dogs it is. There is a lot of research going on about this, but, it’s years away from portable/mobile implementation. Very hard to replicate sensory organs. I guess you could have a mobile van come along, with a vacuum, that will pull in the air from a vehicle, and perform mass spectrometry or something. But, that’d be expensive to have that many units as K9 units. Plus, K9 units also have other capabilities in addition to drug sniffing, namely pursuit. Dogs are fast and agile and they can track a person via smell in real-time. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marijuana-states-and-drug-dog-searches/808377/10 "2020-03-13T07:16:24Z")
spam reported ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marijuana-states-and-drug-dog-searches/808377/12 "2020-03-13T12:30:23Z")
more spam. Reported. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marijuana-states-and-drug-dog-searches/808377/13 "2020-03-13T12:33:05Z")
Can dogs tell marijuana spam from other kinds of drug spam? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![txjim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f07891/32.png) [@txjim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/txjim)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marijuana-states-and-drug-dog-searches/808377/14 "2020-03-13T12:39:04Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > Yeah, not every drug dog is a highly trained Lassie-type. In college I was part of a caravan of [del]dirty hippies [/del] upstanding young students on a road trip, and we got pulled over. The cops dilly-dallied around until the “K-9 unit” could arrive. We [del] were scared shitless [/del] had nothing to worry about, of course. > > When the “K9 unit” finally appeared, they opened the door to let out … a golden retriever. Who promptly took a shit next to the cop car. (Trained service dogs usually don’t defecate at the possible crime scene.) The dog was yawning, obviously woken from a sound sleep, and not at all alert & focused on the task. > > To absolutely nobody’s surprise, the dog didn’t find anything or alert the handler (not that we had anything of interest, oh no sirreebob!) and I remain convinced to this day that one of the cops simply answered the dispatch call with the family pet in tow, as a bluff, to see who’d start sweating & stammering. OK, I know this is an old post but, when reading your story, had visions of a Subaru commercial where the Lab teenage son is in the car and a drug-sniffing cat is being brought out by a bulldog