# Marilyn Manson: Whose Fault Is It? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 23, 2012, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marilyn-manson-whose-fault-is-it/629090 "2012-07-23T00:13:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![madrabbitwoman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c37758/32.png) [@madrabbitwoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madrabbitwoman)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marilyn-manson-whose-fault-is-it/629090/1 "2012-07-23T00:13:43Z")
I am afraid I had always just thought of Marilyn Manson as a weird attention seeking emo/goth/whatever. However I am always happy to have my opinions challenged. Apparently he/she/whatever wrote this essay in response to the Colombine mass shootings in 1999 It is well worth reading: [http://www.antilife.org/files/marilyn.html](http://www.antilife.org/files/marilyn.html) ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marilyn-manson-whose-fault-is-it/629090/2 "2012-07-23T00:27:45Z")
**Marilyn Manson** aka **Brian Warner** actually _used_ to be pretty bad-ass. At least his first record, _Portrait of An American Family_ was. I don’t know what happened…☹ I think I’ve actually read this before, a while back. ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marilyn-manson-whose-fault-is-it/629090/3 "2012-07-23T00:44:43Z")
Then there’s his famous comment when asked what he would have said to the Columbine shooters: “I wouldn’t say a single word to them. I would listen to what they have to say, and that’s what no one did.” He does seem like a pretty intelligent person actually. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marilyn-manson-whose-fault-is-it/629090/4 "2012-07-23T00:56:19Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > Then there’s his famous comment when asked what he would have said to the Columbine shooters: “I wouldn’t say a single word to them. I would listen to what they have to say, and that’s what no one did.” > > He does seem like a pretty intelligent person actually. I thought he was asked what he would say to the families of the Columbine victims, not to the two killers… ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marilyn-manson-whose-fault-is-it/629090/5 "2012-07-23T00:59:23Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > He does seem like a pretty intelligent person actually. That’s always been the impression that I’ve gotten. The schtick doesn’t do him justice (does he still have the schtick? I haven’t paid attention to him in years), but hey–it’s his schtick, and it made him a boatload of cash, so good on him. ---
**Author:** ![Imago](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/85e7bf/32.png) [@Imago](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imago)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marilyn-manson-whose-fault-is-it/629090/6 "2012-07-23T00:59:50Z")
He’s quite intelligent, though I think the opinion that his music has gone soft over the years is nearly universal. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marilyn-manson-whose-fault-is-it/629090/7 "2012-07-23T01:52:11Z")
> [@Imago](#): > > He’s quite intelligent, though I think the opinion that his music has gone soft over the years is nearly universal. What do they mean by “gone soft”? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marilyn-manson-whose-fault-is-it/629090/8 "2012-07-23T03:46:38Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > What do they mean by “gone soft”? Mr. Warner isn’t a musician himself; he’s the vocalist and frontman for what’s been a revolving lineup of players. As a result, his albums have been uneven from one release to the next. His previous album, 2009’s _The High End Of Low_ was an attempt to return to form after 2007’s disastrously conceived _Eat Me, Drink Me_, which was a pathetic attempt at a post-break-up confessional. Contributing to the problem, he’s either been abandoned by or chased off every guitarist who’s worked with him (it depends on who is telling the story which is the case), so instead of any kind of band collaboration on songs, Warner is now left with only his bass player as a co-writer, and there’s a definite lack of, as Murderface would say, _zazz_ on his past few albums. His musical acumen is limited, but his business sense remains about as solid as ever. Re: the OP: yes, Mr. Warner is a very intelligent person. For many people, this somehow clashes with his stage appearance and they find themselves caught off guard when they hear him discuss issues knowledgeably. I’m not sure why people didn’t get the message that metalheads aren’t all idiots on [19 September 1985](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FbBpvoYKpc), but it seems that it does come as something of a shock to a lot of people still. > [@Ambivalid](#): > > I think I’ve actually read this before, a while back. You prolly did; it was written in 1999. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marilyn-manson-whose-fault-is-it/629090/9 "2012-07-23T06:32:19Z")
No, he’s _definitely_ lost his hard-edge in favor of more commerical-pop friendly music. No different ‘supporting cast’ makes a hill of beans difference when it comes to that. ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marilyn-manson-whose-fault-is-it/629090/10 "2012-07-23T07:27:26Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > I thought he was asked what he would say to the families of the Columbine victims, not to the two killers… No, the question was what he would say to the killers. [Here’s the video proof](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYApo2d8o_A). To clear up a few misconceptions: 1. Marilyn Manson has been around for a good bit longer than the term “emo”, which I only starting hearing about 2005-ish, and usually referring to bands on Warped Tour, which have nothing to do with Marilyn Manson the person or the band. 2. Marilyn Manson is a male. In fact, every member of his band to date has been male. 3. Marilyn Manson’s music can be classified generally as industrial metal, not goth music (which is its own genre). I’m a big Marilyn Manson fan, but even I acknowledge that his actual musical skills are limited. He is dependent on the musicians in his band, particularly former-bassist, current-guitarist Twiggy, to create the music for him. He does write his own lyrics, however, and they tend to be either intellectual or more artistically Cloudcuckoolanderish. I personally really like his music and his persona (he’s one of a breed of larger-than-life rock star of the sort I feel like our culture doesn’t produce anymore) and yes, I find him quite intelligent. Here’s a couple more interviews with him that some of y’all might find interesting. [Marilyn Manson on blame](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7u-t-d5D5xY) [Marilyn Manson speaks to Mothers Against Manson](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5onLveW-W_I&feature=related). I particularly love the part where the mom is ranting about her daughter not participating in church, and Manson says, not unkindly, “Maybe it was your religion, and it wasn’t supposed to be hers.” And of course, [the band on Headbangers Ball](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTsGuZfEeFw&feature=related). Just because Twiggy is so epically high~ ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marilyn-manson-whose-fault-is-it/629090/11 "2012-07-23T08:51:27Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > No, the question was what he would say to the killers. [Here’s the video proof](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYApo2d8o_A). Michael Moore’s question was what would Manson say to “the kids at Columbine and the people in the community.” It wasn’t limited to or specifically about Eric Harris or Dylan Kliebold. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marilyn-manson-whose-fault-is-it/629090/12 "2012-07-23T12:52:12Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > 1. Marilyn Manson has been around for a good bit longer than the term “emo”, which I only starting hearing about 2005-ish, and usually referring to bands on Warped Tour, which have nothing to do with Marilyn Manson the person or the band. > > 2. Marilyn Manson is a male. In fact, every member of his band to date has been male. > > 3. Marilyn Manson’s music can be classified generally as industrial metal, not goth music (which is its own genre). #1 and #3 aren’t necessarily wrong, but are wrong if taken together. Emo by strict definition is _hardcore punk_ with melodic and sensitive elements, and most Warped Tour artists fail at the hardcore part. But that’s not necessarily wrong, because people _think_ that emo is sensitive pop punk and words just mean what people use them to mean. Similarly, Marilyn Manson may not strictly be goth, but people consider him goth. So if emo is Warped Tour style pop punk because that’s what people think it is, then Marilyn Manson’s style of music is goth because that’s what people think it is.