# Marine petitions for conscientious objector status; didn't know Marines were violent **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 4, 2003, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480 "2003-04-04T16:02:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/1 "2003-04-04T16:02:05Z")
From this [story](http://beta.kpix.com/news/local/2003/04/01/SJ_Marine_Applies_for_Conscientous_Objector_Status.html): “I wasn’t thinking about the violence … how my beliefs against violence would be challenged,” Funk told reporters before his surrender. I have no problem with the young man identifying himself as gay (which he doesn’t do in the link above, but has [since](http://beta.kpix.com/news/local/2003/04/02/Marine_Asking_for_Conscientious_Objector_Discharge_is_Gay.html)). I have a _slight_ problem with him claiming to be a conscientious objector, since after all he joined the military of his own free will. However, we all make decisions we later regret, so perhaps he can be forgiven that. But his statement above is one of the most singularly idiotic things I have ever read in my life. If you’re a non-violent person with an intelligence level at least approximating that of a cooked cabbage, the one thing you **don’t** do is join the military. Particularly not the Marines, who pride themselves as being among the toughest fighting forces in the world. Did it not occur to him, in the year he’d been a Marine, that he was being trained for violence? I mean, that’s kinda in the job description of a military person. I’m just flabbergasted at the stupidity. It reminds me of a reservist in Alabama who tried to claim conscientious objector status in the last Gulf war. Her quote was something to the effect of “This war made me realize what all that training was for, and I don’t want any part of that. I didn’t join the Army to go to war.” ---
**Author:** ![Earthworm\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f07891/32.png) [@Earthworm\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earthworm_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/2 "2003-04-04T16:22:45Z")
Personally, I think he just wants out. Seems to me like some one convinced him that desertion was NOT the way to go, and now he’s throwing as many possible disqualifiers as he can at them (I’m gay, I’m a conscientous objector, etc). While it **is** possible to remain blind to the fact that you’re being trained for extremely violent situations, I don’t think that was the case for this guy. I have a hunch he joined for the easy money, and wants no part of that whole ‘getting shot at’ thing, but he knows better than to come out and say it. ---
**Author:** ![Gorgon\_Heap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f475e1/32.png) [@Gorgon\_Heap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorgon_Heap)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/3 "2003-04-04T16:29:53Z")
Amazing. Simply amazing. Sure, let the kid out, but smack him with life-long “I’m an idiot” tax or something. Better yet, tatoo “I’m not a deserter, just a coward,” across his forehead. In Army basic training, you are forced to shout things like, “Kill!!!” when you are learning to stab people with a bayonet. That’s the Army. I somehow think the Marines are a little harsher than that. Big friggin’ leap of logic they might actually expect you face combat some day. Fucking fool. ---
**Author:** ![voguevixen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5ac83/32.png) [@voguevixen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voguevixen)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/4 "2003-04-04T16:31:49Z")
A couple of friends of friends were soooo bummed out (man) in the last Gulf war because they joined the military for the college money and found out they would be expected to actually go fight in exchange. Totally bogus, dude! :rolleyes: I can’t believe someone would go through all that training and not grasp that it was for possibly violent purpose. Isn’t one of the first things they teach you how to take care of a gun, and use it to kill things?!? ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/5 "2003-04-04T16:38:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Beelzebubba \* > Personally, I think he just wants out. Seems to me like some one convinced him that desertion was NOT the way to go, and now he’s throwing as many possible disqualifiers as he can at them (I’m gay, I’m a conscientous objector, etc). … > > I have a hunch he joined for the easy money, and wants no part of that whole ‘getting shot at’ thing, but he knows better than to come out and say it. I suspect you’re exactly right. Still, I would like to think he could come up with something better than “my beliefs against violence are being challenged.” That’s just … frightening in its stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/6 "2003-04-04T16:52:24Z")
Is anyone else suddenly flashing back to that Monty Python sketch? “For the water-skiing and the travel, sir. Not for the fighting. I asked them to put it on my form, ‘No fighting’.” “Well, I mean - if it was a big war, someone might get hurt!” ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/7 "2003-04-04T17:10:58Z")
Well don’t blame that gay Marine- he TOLD them when he enlisted, “What I really wanted was a regiment where I could be really quiet and have more time to myself to work with fabrics, and creating new concepts in interior design.” ---
**Author:** ![bayonet1976](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bayonet1976](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bayonet1976)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/8 "2003-04-04T17:57:36Z")
Sauron, my take on [this GD thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=174673) is almost identical to yours. Come on! I mean, if he had joined the Air Force I could understand\*, but he joined the Marines!! \*The above is intended as humor ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/9 "2003-04-04T18:04:23Z")
I think I’d better order an extra case of rolleyes smilies, this thread will use up more than its fair share. Sad to say, but there ARE folks who join the military without intending to go to war if that’s what they’re ordered to do. > [@](#): > > Sure, let the kid out, but smack him with life-long “I’m an idiot” tax or something. Now THERE’S a tax that I’d be more than happy to vote for. Never mind sin taxes, THIS is what we really need. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/10 "2003-04-04T18:29:23Z")
It already exists; lottery tickets. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/11 "2003-04-04T18:35:02Z")
I don’t have a problem with it. Some kids really don’t think about what they’re getting themselves into when they enlist. I know I sure didn’t. At least he didn’t desert like a certain CiC I could name. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/12 "2003-04-04T18:48:43Z")
🙂 I thought the lotter was a tax for people bad at math. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/13 "2003-04-04T18:54:00Z")
**Diogenes** I think it would be healthy for you to seriously try to make it one day without mentioning Bush. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/14 "2003-04-04T19:42:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bayonet1976 \* > \*_Come on! I mean, if he had joined the Air Force I could understand_, but he joined the Marines!! > \*\* Perhaps he thought he was going to become a marine biologist. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/15 "2003-04-04T19:50:41Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by bayonet1976 \* > Sauron, my take on [this GD thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=174673) is almost identical to yours. Come on! I mean, if he had joined the Air Force I could understand_, but he joined the Marines!! > > \*The above is intended as humor Funny, that’s exactly why I joined the Air Force. I didn’t like the extra duty on the Army and Marine descriptions of the same job (warning, following joke may be considered to be in very poor taste; if easily offended, do not read) - _bullet catcher_ 😃 Having had my fun, I’m willing to give this guy some benefit of a doubt (not much, just some). It’s one thing to go through all the training and preparation, but for some, it might not be easy to switch from ‘fake’ (bad term, but I don’t have a better one at hand) to really killing people. And that might not be something you realize until you start firing at live targets (or getting ready to fire at live targets). I’m willing to let this play out a little more before jumping to any conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/16 "2003-04-04T20:13:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > I don’t have a problem with it. Some kids really don’t think about what they’re getting themselves into when they enlist. I could buy this if the kid had claimed CO status during, or right after, boot camp. After a year? No way. He’s had plenty of time to realize what he got himself into. It’s taken him a year to realize the Marines might be violent? ---
**Author:** ![DeVena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dec6dc/32.png) [@DeVena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeVena)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/17 "2003-04-04T20:21:54Z")
I have friends and family that are Marines. Believe me, they went into the Marines BECAUSE of the violence. “It’s the toughest - it’s the one for me!” Personally I think this guy never planned on actual deaths. “The last war didn’t have many deaths, and HEY! bullets hurt. Mommy!” ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/18 "2003-04-04T20:52:48Z")
One of my favorite quotes from the last gulf war was from an Army Officer on the number of reservists who had suddenly realized they were objectors when it became apparent that they would actually go to fight. He said “There is a difference between playing soldier and being one.” I’m fairly certain that that is the case here. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Goo\_Fee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Doctor\_Goo\_Fee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Goo_Fee)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/19 "2003-04-04T21:06:48Z")
Hi there… I’m not a fan of g.w. bush… I could go into lots of problems I have with him as president, but I won’t. But I am curious Diogenes the Cynic, what is the desertion that you are apparently accusing g.w. Bush of? (aside: was it Mark Twain who once said: “Ending a sentance with a preposition is something of which up I will not put.”?) ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/20 "2003-04-04T21:23:32Z")
I thought that was Winston Churchill. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480.md?page=2)