# Marine petitions for conscientious objector status; didn't know Marines were violent **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 4, 2003, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480 "2003-04-04T16:02:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/21 "2003-04-04T21:36:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > At least he didn’t desert like a certain CiC I could name. Name and proof, please. In other words: cite? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/22 "2003-04-04T22:07:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*I don’t have a problem with it. Some kids really don’t think about what they’re getting themselves into when they enlist. I know I sure didn’t. At least he didn’t desert like a certain CiC I could name. \*\* You are like a broken record. I can’t wait to hear your rants about Bush being behind SARS. ---
**Author:** ![Wabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba9def/32.png) [@Wabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wabbit)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/23 "2003-04-04T22:38:38Z")
This guy is a malingerer, pure and simple. He should be put in a medical unit and assigned to carry bodies all day. Whatever they do, they shouldn’t let him out until after the war is over. He’s a disgrace to the Marines, real conscientious objectors, and people who are really homosexual. What a tool… ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/24 "2003-04-04T23:12:11Z")
From a [story](http://www.advocate.com/new_news.asp?id=8217&sd=04/02/03) offering more detail: > [@](#): > > Funk enlisted in February 2002, when he was 19 and living on his own…He says he caved in to pressure from a recruiter who capitalized on his vulnerability. > [@](#): > > Funk said he began doubting his fitness for military service during basic training at Camp Pendleton last spring, when he felt uncomfortable singing cadence calls describing violence and screaming “Kill, kill, kill” during weapons training. “I was unwilling to do that. It just felt very wrong,” he said. “I started just to mouth the words so I wouldn’t get in trouble.” > Funk, whose father served in the Navy in Vietnam, said he expressed his misgivings to several chaplains, who he said never counseled him about the possibility of a conscientious objector discharge. “I didn’t ask for a way out, but I told them about it,” he said. “I told them I’m having nightmares about what this is going to do for my conscience.” > Funk acknowledges his sexual orientation in his conscientious objector statement: “My moral development has also been largely effected by the fact that I’m homosexual. I believe that as a gay man, someone who is misunderstood by much of the general population, I have a great deal of experience with hatred and oppression. When someone is thrust into a situation of hate and oppression because of factors they have no control over, I believe they either react with hatred back, because they’ve experienced it, or they learn not to be that way towards others. I have adopted the latter reaction and stand with the oppressed people of the world who know that hate and oppression do not solve any problems. I was raised to respect, not hate, others who are different than me. I was appalled by the amount of hatred I found in the military. Of course I couldn’t ‘come out’ in boot camp, but everyone pretty much knew that I was gay, and many hated me for it. The military cultivates antigay sentiment among its enlisted, but I also believe it perpetuates feelings of hatred against all that are different either culturally, ethnically, or otherwise. I think that is the way the military dehumanizes the enemy (whomever that may be) so that its members won’t be averse to killing them. Coming to that realization about war disgusted me and made me completely opposed to military action.” > [@](#): > > (W)hile he acknowledged that he was surprised to get called up to active duty so quickly, Funk insists his decision has nothing to do with the current war in Iraq. “I would be applying for this anyway,” he said. “I believe a lot of those people going over there are going to have psychological problems and guilt. I can serve time for being a conscientious objector…or I can go along and do something that I know is wrong and live with that forever.” I’m envious of everyone on this board who had completely developed their permanent and unchanging sense of moral and ethical values by the time they turned 19. I know my life certainly would have been easier had I frozen my thinking at age 19 and never developed any further than where I was emotionally and morally in 1987. Congratulations to those of you who acheived this awesome feat. Oh, and **astorian**? > [@](#): > > Well don’t blame that gay Marine- he TOLD them when he enlisted, “What I really wanted was a regiment where I could be really quiet and have more time to myself to work with fabrics, and creating new concepts in interior design.” Fuck you, you bigoted fucktarded fuck. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/25 "2003-04-04T23:43:41Z")
> [@](#): > > (W)hile he acknowledged that he was surprised to get called up to active duty so quickly, Funk insists his decision has nothing to do with the current war in Iraq. Well, of course he’s going to say that, duh. ---
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/26 "2003-04-04T23:55:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Otto \* > \*\* > Oh, and **astorian**? Fuck you, you bigoted fucktarded fuck. \*\* Were you aware that **Astorian** is quoting from a Monty Python sketch? ---
**Author:** ![Wabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba9def/32.png) [@Wabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wabbit)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/27 "2003-04-05T01:04:14Z")
Jesus freakin cheeraist on a pogo stick–his recruiter ‘pressured’ him into enlisting?! Call me silly, but recruiters don’t tend to barge into peoples’ homes and force them to enlist. Everyone with two brain cells to rub together knows that Marines have a violent job. He’s a malingerer, plain and simple. He should be put in a Graves Registration unit (no combat there) until hostilities are concluded. He’s a disgrace and I have no sympathy for him. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/28 "2003-04-05T01:06:36Z")
Gutless Funk will hopefully get a dishonorable dishcharge, which will be more then enough punishment for him. ---
**Author:** ![Earthworm\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f07891/32.png) [@Earthworm\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earthworm_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/29 "2003-04-05T01:20:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Otto \* > **I’m envious of everyone on this board who had completely developed their permanent and unchanging sense of moral and ethical values by the time they turned 19. I know my life certainly would have been easier had I frozen my thinking at age 19 and never developed any further than where I was emotionally and morally in 1987. Congratulations to those of you who acheived this awesome feat.** If going AWOL, suddenly claiming to be gay, and attempting to get CO status don’t set off your bullshit detector, you’re a fool. ---
**Author:** ![Spit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Spit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spit)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/30 "2003-04-05T06:04:41Z")
He is even a disgrace to conscientious objectors everywhere. I can’t count the number of stories about CO’s who became medics in Viet Nam, and died trying to save their platoons without a care for their own safety. He is a coward, pure and simple. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/31 "2003-04-05T06:34:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spit \* > **I can’t count the number of stories about CO’s who became medics in Viet Nam, and died trying to save their platoons without a care for their own safety.** Hrm. This tells me I must be misconstruing the definition of “conscientious objector,” because my definition doesn’t allow them to be in war AT ALL, in any role. So can someone tell me what exactly it means, and how it still allows people to have combat duty? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/32 "2003-04-05T06:34:58Z")
Class. How many misstatements about the United States military, conscientious objectors, and what it requires to get a particular type of discharge from said military do you see in this thread so far? ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/33 "2003-04-05T06:39:03Z")
I don’t see how this guy could be an example of someone who signed up thinking he wouldn’t see any fighting. A year ago when he signed up, GWB was already on the post-9/11 warpath. I feel kind of sorry for the kid. He fucked up and made a bad decision, which all of us have done. But when we choose the wrong major or take a bad job, we don’t end up being forced to kill and possibly be killed. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/34 "2003-04-05T08:06:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*Name and proof, please. In other words: cite? \*\* [Awolbush.com](http://www.awolbush.com/) ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/35 "2003-04-05T08:15:44Z")
I think you folks calling this kid daft and dumb haven’t been at all paying attention to the recruiting techniques of the US military. Seen the ads on TV? “Earn money for college, and get life skills you can apply to a career in or outside of the armed forces,” or something to that affect. Military recruiting isn’t about getting kids who want to fight, it’s about getting kids who feel insecure either financially or otherwise about their future, and convincing them that the military will suit their needs. When I was in my senior year of high school the Marines were trying to recruit me pretty heavily. We never talked about fighting, death, or blood. It was all about character, strength, and honor. It seems fairly obvious to me how someone could be easily lulled into the idea that a career in the armed forces could be done without actual fighting. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/36 "2003-04-05T10:59:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wabbit \* > \*\*Jesus freakin cheeraist on a pogo stick–his recruiter ‘pressured’ him into enlisting?! Call me silly, but recruiters don’t tend to barge into peoples’ homes and force them to enlist. Everyone with two brain cells to rub together knows that Marines have a violent job. He’s a malingerer, plain and simple. He should be put in a Graves Registration unit (no combat there) until hostilities are concluded. He’s a disgrace and I have no sympathy for him. \*\* Recruiters DO apply some pretty constant pressure on kids that they think might join the service. This includes phone calls, at least. ---
**Author:** ![Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dreaming_of_Maria_Callas)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/37 "2003-04-05T13:58:30Z")
This guy is probably a shitbag Marine, and some of your criticisms are spot-on. However, I see a lot of ignorance about how conscientious objection works in the military. Please visit the GD thread [Marine Gay Conscientious Objector](http://http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=174673) where **Monty** and I tried to explain how application for CO discharge works. I am a CO (from the Navy), and **Monty** is a retired personnelman, so I hope you will take a look at what we have to say. Then you can come back here and flame this probably poser to your heart’s content. UnuMondo ---
**Author:** ![Wabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba9def/32.png) [@Wabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wabbit)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/38 "2003-04-05T17:06:31Z")
The link–it doesn’t work!!! I’d be interested to see what you said there, actually. And I still have no sympathy for someone to moronic to figure out a) that being in the Marines means there’s a chance you’ll have to go to war (?!) and b) he can say ‘no’ and the recruiters won’t bug him any more. Like I said–Graves Registration would be an appropriate place for him. ---
**Author:** ![Spit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Spit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spit)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/39 "2003-04-05T17:43:06Z")
[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=174673](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=174673) ---
**Author:** ![Spit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Spit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spit)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480/40 "2003-04-05T18:06:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Leaper \* > \*\*Hrm. This tells me I must be misconstruing the definition of “conscientious objector,” because my definition doesn’t allow them to be in war AT ALL, in any role. > > So can someone tell me what exactly it means, and how it still allows people to have combat duty? \*\* Here are a couple of cites: [http://www.vietnamwall.org/biblio.html](http://www.vietnamwall.org/biblio.html) > [@](#): > > Tom Bennett was a conscientious objector who became a combat medic, was killed in action near Pleiku on February 11, 1969, serving with B Company, 1/14 Infantry, 4th Infantry Division; he was awarded the Medal of Honor posthumously. [http://www.geocities.com/westywesty.geo/Documents/AAR\_Mar1267/aar\_3-12-67\_1.html](http://www.geocities.com/westywesty.geo/Documents/AAR_Mar1267/aar_3-12-67_1.html) > [@](#): > > Boyd Gardner, the platoon medic, was a conscientious objector and even refused to carry a weapon. His duty, he thought, was to aid the wounded, not to kill people. > \*\*\\*\*When the point man went down Gardner rushed forward to help him. A machine gun bullet split the brim of his helmet, struck him between the eyes and killed him. [http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/philip\_paulson/foxhole.html](http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/philip_paulson/foxhole.html) > [@](#): > > One of my army buddies was a very bright and articulate medic. I asked him why he wasn’t carrying a rifle or even a pistol, and he replied that he was a pacifist.\*\*\\*\*Being under fire didn’t seem to bother him either or keep him from performing his duty. I recall seeing my buddy risk his life many times during very frightening battles, fearlessly running about various terrain and attending to the wounded. Then, one dreadful day, I saw his lifeless body riddled with bullet holes, struck dead by Viet Cong small-arms fire. IMHO, those are **men**. People who kept their beliefs to the bitter end, while still helping those with whom the did not share the same vision. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marine-petitions-for-conscientious-objector-status-didnt-know-marines-were-violent/166480.md?page=3)