# Marines basic training today versus Full Metal Jacket era **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 21, 2008, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-basic-training-today-versus-full-metal-jacket-era/460782 "2008-08-21T10:04:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-basic-training-today-versus-full-metal-jacket-era/460782/41 "2008-08-24T19:50:22Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] I’ve heard before about informal responses to someone who refuses to shower. Is this common in the military? If so, I wonder what the deal is. Is refusal to shower some kind of common response to pressure? [/QUOTE] This was the only serial dirtbag I ran into in boot camp. I know he was also almost as dumb as a rock and the thing he liked best about Boot Camp was the food. The same food everyone else hated and made fun of. Apparently this kid came from a screwed up dirt poor background. I remember he was from West Virginia and his civvies (civilian clothes) were very well worn looking and his sneakers ratty. I think, but I did not ask, that he grew up dirt poor and without running water. I am pretty sure he cleaned up and made it out to the fleet. [QUOTE=Argent Towers] What possible justification does the Navy or any other branch of the service have for not kicking someone the fuck out if they are unable to shower regularly? If someone is so dirty that he actually smells bad, if he can’t even address his most basic physical needs, what else is he overlooking? How can such a person possibly be trusted with any kind of responsibility? They should be given a general discharge. [/QUOTE] Sometimes it takes the Navy a while to figure out a sailor is a dirtbag. It has to work its way up the chain of command and through proper channels. It can also be tough as many sailors work 20 hours a day at sea at times. I did it for a 12 period at one point and I guarantee there were days where no one would have wanted to be near me. At least my clothes were clean as laundry underway was done for the entire coop. There were too many days were I worked my long shifts and watches, collapsed into my bunk and got up 4 hours later to start over again. I would not have showered at all if I did not just go shower while I was on duty but had a spare 10 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-basic-training-today-versus-full-metal-jacket-era/460782/42 "2008-08-24T21:34:37Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] This was the only serial dirtbag I ran into in boot camp. I know he was also almost as dumb as a rock and the thing he liked best about Boot Camp was the food. The same food everyone else hated and made fun of. [/QUOTE] My grandpa - God bless him - is like, the most bitter and hard-to-please man in the universe. Imagine Archie Bunker crossed with Paulie from The Sopranos. In both appearance, and personality. I have never met someone in my entire life who was more grumpy and bitter. It’s like an absurd caricature of a grumpy old man, except it’s real. Anyway, when we go out to eat at restaurants, he complains (to the waiter) about the food, _every time_ without fail, and usually sends it back. It’s NEVER good enough for him. Once, he sent a BLT sandwich back to the kitchen _three times_ because the bread still wasn’t toasted enough for him. He is like, every waiter and every cook’s worst nightmare. Yet he still eats out at restaurants at least five times a week. Once I asked him: “Grandpa, if you’re so picky about food, how in the hell did you ever make it through the Army?” He snapped at me, “the food in the Army was GREAT!” ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-basic-training-today-versus-full-metal-jacket-era/460782/43 "2008-08-24T21:53:59Z")
Bernard Fergusson records that ‘even in the siege of Tobruk there was one man who found time to grouse about the food, and I found the only solution was to make him cook it himself’ ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-basic-training-today-versus-full-metal-jacket-era/460782/44 "2008-08-24T21:57:31Z")
[QUOTE=Slithy Tove] …Vietnam changed everything for the rest of the services, in an era when a white (usually Southern) sergeant hitting a drafted Black guy would have caused a riot. Since the Marines were all volunteers (and IMHO, have a lot of unresolved homoerotic S&M issues 🙂 )… [/QUOTE] 😕 I was under the impression that the Marines recieved conscripts during Vietnam. ---
**Author:** ![Skylark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Skylark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skylark)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-basic-training-today-versus-full-metal-jacket-era/460782/45 "2008-08-24T22:07:02Z")
[QUOTE=SkeptiJess] And, the Marine DIs aren’t supposed to hit, either, although you will always run into a Marine or two who insists that his DI beat the shit out of him on a regular basis. [/QUOTE] Yup. And as recent as couple of years ago there was a small media fracas about a jacked up Marine recruit company and its totally jacked up DI. [QUOTE=What Exit?] However, even when I was in, cursing was still normal and there was at least one blanket party of a recruit that would not take showers. His blanket was held down at 4 corners and at least 15 recruits with bars of soap in a sock walked by and hit him. He was then dragged into the showers on his blanket and told to shower or this would be repeated. I think that counts as hazing. There were also a few pink bellies, but I don’t remember the details. I was never on the receiving or giving end. [/quote] That is hazing, and in the Navy these days (esp. New Navy) they make a BIG deal out of hazing, racial/sexual harassment, anything else. In Navy boot camp you are no longer allowed bars of soap for this very reason --everybody gets this body wash shit that flakes your hair (the little you got) and rashes your body over but you can’t make a blanket party with it. Recruit Company Commanders are now called Recruit Division Commanders (RDCs), and are technically not allowed to curse but will do it anyway. [QUOTE=levdrakon] The Army doesn’t beat people up anymore. [/QUOTE] But people do fall down stairs a lot. Recruits still police their own. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-basic-training-today-versus-full-metal-jacket-era/460782/46 "2008-08-24T22:26:55Z")
[QUOTE=Skylark] But people do fall down stairs a lot. Recruits still police their own. [/QUOTE] Hm. YMMV, I guess. We had this guy we called “puke.” He’d already tried to make it through Navy & Marine basic and got thrown out of both. Every time we had to do anything strenuous or stressful he’d bend over and start pretending he was puking and couldn’t do it. He got our whole platoon in trouble several times, but no one ever beat him up. He eventually just failed out again. I swear the guy was making a career out of failing basic training. We did police our own, but never by beating anyone up. The system can wash people out if they’re that bad. We were big on documentation and paper trails. Of course, I joined during peacetime, and the Army didn’t need to retain every single warm body. Things could change during wartime. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-basic-training-today-versus-full-metal-jacket-era/460782/47 "2008-08-25T02:01:05Z")
[QUOTE=alphaboi867] 😕 I was under the impression that the Marines recieved conscripts during Vietnam. [/QUOTE] I was always told that the Marines had only drafted in WWII, not Vietnam, but I searched online and couldn’t find that as a nailed-down fact. Some guys, after receiving their draft notices, ran to join the air force or navy, in order to avoid the army. Some joined the Marines, not to avoid combat, of course, but out of a belief that they’d be serving among people who wanted to be there and had higher standards. I also found online something I’d heard before: if you’d enlisted in the navy during Vietnam, you could be cherry-picked into the Marines. ---
**Author:** ![colorfuldude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a5b964/32.png) [@colorfuldude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colorfuldude)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-basic-training-today-versus-full-metal-jacket-era/460782/48 "2014-05-10T04:51:35Z")
Hey dudes…Chill. Doesn’t matter …The Crotch is probably still the “crotch” today as it was when I was in it back in early '74…Theres One thing I still never hear anyone mention when they talk about the toughness of marine corps boot camp in comparison to back then, today, or full metal jacket…Anyone ever heard of Motivation platoon? If you have, then what about the “minor offence” version of it called “dirt”. I was sentenced to a 2 hour “session” of Motivation platoon called "dirt because I simply didn’t click the lock closed on my weapon overnight…Lord, I wish there was SOMEONE out there who could testify on what going to dirt was like…I would have to write a book here to describe it…NOTHING has ever come CLOSE! to the Physical TORTURE our government put me thru for nor clicking my lock tight…If It happened today, I (we) would be on good day America, Oprah, and all the similar outlets suing for MILLIONS because of the abuse!!They outlawed mote, (motivation platoon and its off shoots like “dirt” in 1976…Why don’t I EVER here from ANYONE who knows about “mote” as they called it and “dirt”…The Marine Corps isn’t just tough…They were criminal. And Im just a regular, non trouble makin guy who happened to just leave his weapon unlocked just ONE night. I have an Honorable discharge and everything…ANYBODY who think they can compare any branch of the military with the Marines are Mad…They just don’t know…Wow, with all this I could have described “dirt”…sorry ---
**Author:** ![Boogly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Boogly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boogly)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-basic-training-today-versus-full-metal-jacket-era/460782/49 "2014-05-10T05:35:04Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I’ve heard my share of stories from Marines who served “back in the day” about how the basic training that Marines go through today is not as rough as the training _they_ went through back in the 60s, 50s, 40s, whenever. > > The classic portrayal of Marines basic training in popular culture is probably the film _Full Metal Jacket._ In this movie, the recruits are called maggots, pukes, faggots, cocksuckers, and various other degrading names. Some of them are beaten physically by their drill instructor. But I have been told by many Marines - some of them who are my age, and some of them who are from older generations - that the training now is supposedly “soft” somehow compared to how it used to be. > > They say that: > > Drill instructors are not allowed to use curse words > > They are no longer allowed to beat recruits physically > > Anyone who does these things will be punished by the higher ups > > There is no more tolerance for hazing from fellow recruits > > How much truth is there to all of this? Can anyone who has been through it weigh in? When I went thru in 91 when we were dropped from receiving to the platoon the DI’s had us sitting on the quarterdeck so the Senior could introduce us to his Junior DI’s. The Senior asked if any of us had not heard curse words and went down a list. After he was certain we had all heard of them he asked if any of us was offended by any of those words. Nobody said anything and the Senior let us know that if we were not offended by those words then he and his DI’s would use them. This was done in a conversational tone. The Junior DI’s said nothing and remained in Parade Rest. After he let us know the ground rules, which basically was “Him: Boss; Us: broken members of society who he would mold as He saw fit.” He then let us know that he would be reviewing our paperwork in his Hut and the Junior DI’s would let us know what else would happen. As soon as he got inside the hut and the door closed all hell broke loose! That being said the DI’s can just make up cuss words and somehow you know what they mean without being told. There was no out in the open punching or choking but certain recruits had to have their body alignment or rifle positioning adjusted more forcefully than others. (‘4 INCHES FROM YOUR CHEST PRIVATE PYLE!’ makes me smile to this day.) While I was in boot camp it was rumored that a company a week ahead of us had to be broken up and reformed due to DI violence. It could have been scuttlebutt or it could have been real. I had enough issues to deal with in my platoon and didn’t care about another company. Hazing is a fuzzy term but problem recruits were singled out. The DI’s PT’ing (physical training) for an extended amount of time because Recruit ScrewUp can’t do ‘x’. We never had any blanket parties. The recruits were broken down into squads and the squads were broken down into teams. If a screw up did pop up it was the job of the team to square his shit away. Most of the time this was done with mentoring and threats of violence rather than violence. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-basic-training-today-versus-full-metal-jacket-era/460782/50 "2014-05-10T08:14:36Z")
I served as a British soldier in the 60s. Curses were par for the course then and to be honest I enjoyed listening to them. The drill instructors were incredibly inventive in their cursing and natural-born comedians to a man. I used to have to fight to keep a straight face on many occasions. Physical stuff was uncommon though not unknown. Definitely against Queen’s Regulations and a serious military offence if substantiated. I’m sure the cursing still continues. It would be a sad day if DIs couldn’t do it. If soldiers can’t stand up to a tirade of abuse without flinching or wailing about their rights then the Lord knows how they’d cope in battle. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-basic-training-today-versus-full-metal-jacket-era/460782/51 "2014-05-10T09:42:03Z")
Blanket parties happen when someone does something deliberate that hurts the whole platoon. Like one guy told me 2 guys had stolen some things and the whole platoon had their leave cancelled because of this. In the US Navy one big hazing is when a sailor crosses the equator they get hazed like hell. And you better forever keep your card saying you went thru it or they do it to you again. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-basic-training-today-versus-full-metal-jacket-era/460782/52 "2014-05-10T11:54:15Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Blanket parties happen when someone does something deliberate that hurts the whole platoon. Like one guy told me 2 guys had stolen some things and the whole platoon had their leave cancelled because of this. > > In the US Navy one big hazing is when a sailor crosses the equator they get hazed like hell. And you better forever keep your card saying you went thru it or they do it to you again. You do know you can opt out of it? I simply stood an 8 hour switchboard watch during the entire process. I had no interest in the stupidity of getting my shellback. So I am a pollywog to this day. It took standing up to some peer pressure and talking to the command master chief but I was able to opt out of the silliness. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-basic-training-today-versus-full-metal-jacket-era/460782/53 "2014-05-10T13:20:29Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > You trained with a _1903?_ How old are you? The M1903 Springfield rifle was designed and adopted by the military in 1903. Actual production continued until 1942. Amazingly some were still being used as service weapons as late as 1974. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-basic-training-today-versus-full-metal-jacket-era/460782/54 "2014-05-10T13:52:05Z")
It’s fairly common for obsolete rifles to be deactivated and given to initial trainees as something to carry around and look after. If they get damaged by assault courses etc. it doesn’t matter too much. The Navy used '03s for this purpose for many years; many have been released now. The movie of _An Officer And A Gentleman_ has Richard Gere carrying an old M1 rifle around, for the same purpose. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-basic-training-today-versus-full-metal-jacket-era/460782/55 "2014-05-10T17:48:26Z")
When I was in basic we had the psycho crazy DS, who was known to have previously been busted for abusing recruits. He did some time over it, had his rank & pay taken away for awhile. We also had the big, strong but relatively soft spoken DS who occasionally cracked a joke or let the platoon relax a bit. I’ve heard so many similar stories I think it’s just good cop bad cop. I’m not sure how likely it is a drill could get busted for abusing troops, do some time, and be put right back in charge of troops. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-basic-training-today-versus-full-metal-jacket-era/460782/56 "2014-05-10T19:38:05Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > In the US Navy one big hazing is when a sailor crosses the equator they get hazed like hell. And you better forever keep your card saying you went thru it or they do it to you again. > [@What\_Exit](#): > > You do know you can opt out of it? I simply stood an 8 hour switchboard watch during the entire process. I had no interest in the stupidity of getting my shellback. So I am a pollywog to this day. It took standing up to some peer pressure and talking to the command master chief but I was able to opt out of the silliness. Doesn’t this stuff happen – in some way or shape – whenever any ship, naval or civilian, crosses the Equator? Including passenger vessels / cruise liners? Presumably on ships with fare-paying passengers, those folks’ participation is voluntary; but I have the picture that a good many of same consider it fun, and join in accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-basic-training-today-versus-full-metal-jacket-era/460782/57 "2014-05-10T21:31:44Z")
> [@vontsira](#): > > Doesn’t this stuff happen – in some way or shape – whenever any ship, naval or civilian, crosses the Equator? Including passenger vessels / cruise liners? Presumably on ships with fare-paying passengers, those folks’ participation is voluntary; but I have the picture that a good many of same consider it fun, and join in accordingly. It varies a lot by ship but I doubt the passenger ships come close to the what various Navies and Merchant Marines do. For me, I just did not want to do it. I’m not even sure why at this point, it was 25 years ago that I made my stand. Probably a very silly stand. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-basic-training-today-versus-full-metal-jacket-era/460782/58 "2014-05-11T03:37:33Z")
Joe McCarthy broke his leg in his crossing-the-equator ceremony, and (big surprise) later lied about it: [Joseph McCarthy: Reexamining the Life and Legacy of America's Most Hated Senator - Arthur Herman - Google Books](http://books.google.com/books?id=DIibZoDyADEC&pg=PA30&lpg=PA30&dq=joe+mccarthy+crossing+equator&source=bl&ots=7QaUdGqzKO&sig=hQRmTL5aTcJvg3SA9NG1mXKfQIk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=OvBuU9C8Cu-_sQSSzYDYBw&ved=0CD4Q6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=joe%20mccarthy%20crossing%20equator&f=false) ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-basic-training-today-versus-full-metal-jacket-era/460782/59 "2014-05-11T04:19:32Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Joe McCarthy broke his leg in his crossing-the-equator ceremony, and (big surprise) later lied about it: [Joseph McCarthy: Reexamining the Life and Legacy of America's Most Hated Senator - Arthur Herman - Google Books](http://books.google.com/books?id=DIibZoDyADEC&pg=PA30&lpg=PA30&dq=joe+mccarthy+crossing+equator&source=bl&ots=7QaUdGqzKO&sig=hQRmTL5aTcJvg3SA9NG1mXKfQIk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=OvBuU9C8Cu-_sQSSzYDYBw&ved=0CD4Q6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=joe%20mccarthy%20crossing%20equator&f=false) Hmmm…I dunno. It seems that there are a few too many antecedents to be able to say what the lies were about, what the lies were, etc… to be able to say for sure that he lied about that ceremony. The account is too vague. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-basic-training-today-versus-full-metal-jacket-era/460782/60 "2014-05-11T04:35:27Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > You do know you can opt out of it? I simply stood an 8 hour switchboard watch during the entire process. I had no interest in the stupidity of getting my shellback. So I am a pollywog to this day. It took standing up to some peer pressure and talking to the command master chief but I was able to opt out of the silliness. No, I was never told it was voluntary. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-basic-training-today-versus-full-metal-jacket-era/460782.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-basic-training-today-versus-full-metal-jacket-era/460782.md?page=4)