# Marines vs. Army **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 8, 2004, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-vs-army/223482 "2004-01-08T19:40:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-vs-army/223482/41 "2004-01-09T12:45:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by duffer \* > \*\*Just from what I’ve been told, the USMC and USN are seperate entities in function. However, in time of war the USMC falls under the command of USN. Is this incorrect? \*\* We have three different units here. The U.S. Navy (headed by CNO), the U.S. Marine Corps (headed by CMC), and the Dept of the Navy (headed by [SecNav](http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/people/secnav/responsi.html)). The Dept of the Navy has TWO subordinate units, the U.S. Navy and the USMC. The Marines do not fall under the command of the USN in time of war, nor at any other time, but they always fall under the Dept of the Navy. On a side note, I seem to recall that title being changed to “Dept of Navy and Marine Corps” a few years back. Guess it didn’t stick. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-vs-army/223482/42 "2004-01-09T13:13:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KidCharlemagne \* > \*\*…do the Marines have any paratrooper division? \*\* Marines don’t need parachutes, they just jump and roll. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-vs-army/223482/43 "2004-01-09T13:23:57Z")
**kmg365** , great answers, thanks. Not a teenager, just a curious cat. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-vs-army/223482/44 "2004-01-09T14:04:16Z")
**KidCharlemagne** , here’s where our various Army combat units are right now: [Where are the divisions?](http://www.strategypage.com/fyeo/howtomakewar/databases/wherearethedivisions.asp) Note that though this counts the NG combat divisions and brigades, it does not count the numerous “independent” support units from the regulars, reserves and NG, including likely-to-see-fire MP batallions and companies, attached to the combat units during the deployment. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-vs-army/223482/45 "2004-01-09T14:17:26Z")
Oh, and re: wartime command. The service that falls “under” the Navy in “wartime” is the _Coast Guard_, which in “peacetime” is not even in DoD (in my lifetime has been under Treasury, Transportation and now Homeland Security). The quotes are there because in reality, the modern US military is based on joint commands where units from all 5 services will be put together to do the job that needs to be done (or so the theory goes – your mileage may vary, sometimes painfully so). So USCG units can and will and have served under Navy commands, taking fire in the war zone, during nondeclared wars or “operations” such as Vietnam, Desert Storm and Iraq. When you set up a theatre command for maritime and amphibious ops, you will likely give the overall command responsibilities to a Navy team because they have access to (and experience with) the administrative/logistical/technical/political resource base necessary to coordinate the Big Picture. The Marines, there to do one job and do it well, will be subordinate, but to the _command structure_ and the strategic plan, rather than to the Navy _qua_ Navy. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-vs-army/223482/46 "2004-01-09T15:05:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by duffer \* > \*\*Just from what I’ve been told, the USMC and USN are seperate entities in function. However, in time of war the USMC falls under the command of USN. Is this incorrect? \*\* This is incorrect. See my post above: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by robby \* > \*\*In a nutshell, the U.S. Navy and the U.S. Marine Corps are two branches of our armed forces, both of which are within the Department of the Navy. The 4-star admiral in charge of the U.S. Navy is the Chief of Naval Operations (CNO), and the 4-star general in charge of the U.S. Marine Corps is the Commandant of the Marine Corps (CMC). Both of these uniformed officers are on the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and both report to the Secretary of the Navy, who is a civilian member of the President’s cabinet. The CMC does NOT report to the CNO. They are equals. > > Thus, the U.S. Marine Corps is within the Department of the Navy, but is NOT part of the U.S. Navy. Clear as mud? 🙂 > \*\* Also, as **Tripler** noted previously, the [U.S. Marine Corps seal](http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/blmarineseal.htm) indicates this as well. ---
**Author:** ![USNSPARKS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9fc348/32.png) [@USNSPARKS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USNSPARKS)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-vs-army/223482/47 "2004-01-09T19:56:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by [t-bonham@scc.net](mailto:t-bonham@scc.net) \* > \*\*Old joke: > > _Why do they have Marines on Navy ships? > Because sheep would be too obvious._\* > > Old, but I like it – it annoys both my ex-navy brother and my ex-Marine cousin, at the same time. 🙂 \*\* Am surprised no one caught that. There is no such thing as an ‘ex-marine’. They are properly referred to as ‘former marines’. Once a marine, always a marine! ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-vs-army/223482/48 "2004-01-09T20:25:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by USNSPARKS \* > \*\*There is no such thing as an ‘ex-marine’. . . . Once a marine, always a marine! \*\* I don’t know what this means, unless it is some kind of silly macho boast. He has a document for the DOD stating that he is “honorably discharged”. That sure would seem to make him an “ex-”. As for “always a marine!” … I can just imagine seeing him, potbelly, hernias, & all going out to ‘hit the beach’! Do they make foxholes in size XXXL? Ha! ---
**Author:** ![SkyCowboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@SkyCowboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkyCowboy)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-vs-army/223482/49 "2004-01-09T20:45:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by [t-bonham@scc.net](mailto:t-bonham@scc.net) \* > \*\*I don’t know what this means, unless it is some kind of silly macho boast. \*\* Bonham, Bingo! You’ve decoded properly and get this afternoon’s grand prize. Best, Sky ---
**Author:** ![SkyCowboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@SkyCowboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkyCowboy)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-vs-army/223482/50 "2004-01-09T20:51:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kmg365 \* > \*\*The easiest way to explain it is this: The U.S. Army has the most elaborate material management command of any military force in the world. \*\* KMG, Talk of elaborate, you ought to see the maintenance and logistics train required to support an Air Force fighter or bomber wing. Our Navy doesn’t do so bad either in requiring elaborate support. It takes several thousands sailors on a billion dollar aircraft carrier just to support the 75 or so aircraft in an Air Carrier Wing when at sea. Best, Sky ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-vs-army/223482/51 "2004-01-09T21:08:54Z")
Thinking about the Coast Guard, and the work they did in the Gulf recently–how difficult is it to get their ships over there? I assume their work often calls for smaller, faster, more mobile ships than the large, oceangoing Naval vessels. Do they convoy over? Are they, even though small, still big enough to be comfortable/stable/durable for a cross-planet excursion (I know small sailboats/yachts circle the world, but don’t know how EASY it is). Or do they just use local ships? ---
**Author:** ![USNSPARKS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9fc348/32.png) [@USNSPARKS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USNSPARKS)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-vs-army/223482/52 "2004-01-09T21:21:48Z")
[t-bonham@scc.net](mailto:t-bonham@scc.net) SkyCowboy It’s so much easier to make wise cracks than it is to understand the truth. I suggest you ask a former marine. Sir Winston was right. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-vs-army/223482/53 "2004-01-09T23:27:40Z")
Former Marine reporting. **t-bonham** and **SkyCowboy** are to be excused since they have no experience as to what it takes to be a Marine. I will say though that I can’t disagree with it being a macho thing since if nothing else that is what being a Marine is all about. I’m not sure if **ShyCowboy** is in or has been in the Air Force. If so that is probably what he believes gives him some experience as to what a being a Marine means. I would point out that Marines refer to the Air Force as the “Country Club”. In my experience very few Marine Officers come out of Annapolis. For one thing they are trained as Naval Officers and their summers are spent with Navy units. On a purely practical level, they have their Navy uniforms when they graduate. If they switch to the Marines they must buy a complete set of the most expensive uniforms in the military. Only the shoes and skivies are the same. During my days in Basic Training I encountered one. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-vs-army/223482/54 "2004-01-09T23:53:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by toadspittle \* > \*\*Thinking about the Coast Guard, and the work they did in the Gulf recently–how difficult is it to get their ships over there? I assume their work often calls for smaller, faster, more mobile ships than the large, oceangoing Naval vessels. Do they convoy over? Are they, even though small, still big enough to be comfortable/stable/durable for a cross-planet excursion (I know small sailboats/yachts circle the world, but don’t know how EASY it is). Or do they just use local ships? \*\* Doper **Chandeleur** , being a Coastie himself, would know better, but AFAIK the Island-class patrol boats can load up on extra fuel and supplies to “ferry” across (with several stops along the way) if the weather’s not too nasty. As it is they routinely cruise on patrol for 3X the time that was asked for in their design spec. The HECs are destroyer-sized so they can make it across quite well, the MECs vary in seakeeping qualities but they can do it. The smaller harbor-patrol craft and speedboats would likely get loaded up on a barge and convoyed over. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-vs-army/223482/55 "2004-01-10T02:34:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kniz \* > \*\*In my experience very few Marine Officers come out of Annapolis. For one thing they are trained as Naval Officers and their summers are spent with Navy units. On a purely practical level, they have their Navy uniforms when they graduate. If they switch to the Marines they must buy a complete set of the most expensive uniforms in the military. Only the shoes and skivies are the same. During my days in Basic Training I encountered one. \*\* In my understanding (from Academy grads) the Marines coming out of the Naval Academy are either at the top of the class and really want to do it, or at the bottom of the class and all the other slots were taken. The USNA has a set number of slots for the Marines each year, and they WILL be filled. On your second point, ALL officers need to buy their uniforms while at TBS. Only the Utility uniform (BDU in Army talk) is issued. You have to buy them all and have them inspected for fit during the six month course, or they don’t let you leave. I was a ROTC grad, in with a few Academy grads who did NOT want to go through six months with their Academy classmates. Great guys. Must have been from the top part of the class. ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-vs-army/223482/56 "2004-01-10T03:55:51Z")
I have a question about Marine pilots on US aircraft carriers-the ones who fly the planes like the F18 and F14…since there are also Navy pilots who fly the same planes, is there any difference between the types of missions these two groups of pilots fly? ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-vs-army/223482/57 "2004-01-10T04:19:48Z")
Marines do not fly the F-14, the only carrier-based aircraft the Marines have is the F/A-18, now that the A-6 is out. I believe the missions of the Navy and Marine F/A-18 squadrons are the same while on float, although as a ground guy, I would prefer to have a Jarhead at the wheel of the plane providing Close Air Support to my butt. Squid jet jockey is a very close second choice. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-vs-army/223482/58 "2004-01-10T04:42:05Z")
Well, **UncleBill** , I’m not an infantryman and I’ve never been in close combat, but if I were in a rifle and mortar type battle I think I’d prefer to be with a bunch of ordinary Marines over a bunch of ordinary Army-types. I’ve talked about this with said Army-types, and they pretty much agreed. They wanted their tanks and stuff. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-vs-army/223482/59 "2004-01-10T05:01:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by toadspittle \* > Thinking about the Coast Guard, and the work they did in the Gulf recently–how difficult is it to get their ships over there? I assume their work often calls for smaller, faster, more mobile ships than the large, oceangoing Naval vessels. Do they convoy over? Are they, even though small, still big enough to be comfortable/stable/durable for a cross-planet excursion (I know small sailboats/yachts circle the world, but don’t know how EASY it is). Or do they just use local ships? A few months ago I was talking to a guy who served on a 110 foot Cutter in the Iraq war. He said that to get over there, their entire Cutter was loaded onto another ship that carried it over to the Gulf. On their trip back to the States, they crossed the Atlantic under their own steam (in a convoy, I believe, and I didn’t ask about fueling and supplies). ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-vs-army/223482/60 "2004-01-10T05:12:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by HPL \* > \*\*I’ve been having a dicussion with a friend of mine who lives in Germany and he’s having a hard time understanding exactly what the big difference between the Army and Marines are. > > So far he understands that one has strong ties to(and in some ways, falls under) the Navy and that the Marines are smaller then the Army but more elite, but other then I’m not how exactly how to lay out the differences. \*\* Think of it as intent The marines are basically, along with the 82nd airborne , the presidents police/fire brigade. The duration of the combat operations are likely to be measured in days ,before resuply is requried. Also they are a modular force , depending on whats required. From a company size element to re-inforce an embassy during troubled times, to a full on regiment thats going to re adjust some ones attitude. They bring everything to the party , from the marine rifleman , to the f-18. Declan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-vs-army/223482.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marines-vs-army/223482.md?page=4)