# Mark 16:9 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 8, 2012, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-16-9/634060 "2012-09-08T01:48:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![rstrats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@rstrats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rstrats)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-16-9/634060/21 "2012-09-09T14:13:57Z")
tomndebb, re: “ If you think that the seventh day starts on Saturday evening, (against all Jewish tradition), then you are simply misinformed about the numbering of the days of the week. I think that the seventh day starts at sundown at the end of the sixth day of the week and that the first part of the new calendar day is referred to as “evening”. You can call it Saturday (Sunday if you’re in Europe) or Bob or anything else that you like. It is still the seventh day. ---
**Author:** ![rstrats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@rstrats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rstrats)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-16-9/634060/22 "2012-09-09T14:27:43Z")
The Flying Dutchman , re: “…if you believe every thing that has been written you’d bet that God wouldn’t keep Jesus cooling his heels in the tomb on the Jewish [Biblical] sabbath…” I don’t understand what your point is. Could you elaborate? re: “Are you Jewish ?” No; why do you ask? ---
**Author:** ![rstrats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@rstrats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rstrats)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-16-9/634060/23 "2012-09-09T14:33:13Z")
Alessan, re: “ ‘Saturday evening’ is on Saturday.” Agreed. And your point would be? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-16-9/634060/24 "2012-09-09T14:43:41Z")
Crucifixion was horrible because the body was left up there for the crows to pick at, which was an offense to everyone’s sensibilities. Jesus was taken down from the cross at sundown on Friday, the beginning of the Passover Sabbath, because the Romans felt the need to respect the Jewish holiday, otherwise he would have just been left hanging (sort of a little plot hole in the story, I always thought). If he rose again on Sunday, that is surely not 3 days but more like a day and a half. I have seen people explain that it was actually Tuesday, or that the crucifixion was actually on Wednesday, and we are misunderstanding the language or usage, but I shall not be bothered to try to find a cite. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-16-9/634060/25 "2012-09-09T15:12:11Z")
> [@rstrats](#): > > The Flying Dutchman , > > re: “…if you believe every thing that has been written you’d bet that God wouldn’t keep Jesus cooling his heels in the tomb on the Jewish [Biblical] sabbath…” > > I don’t understand what your point is. Could you elaborate? I responded to your suggestion that Jesus may have arisen the previous day but that the stone was rolled away the following day. > [@](#): > > No; why do you ask? I was trying to understand where you were coming from with the claim that Saturday evening starts off the seventh day. Who else might refer to friday evening as Saturday ? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-16-9/634060/26 "2012-09-09T16:25:20Z")
> [@rstrats](#): > > I think that the seventh day starts at sundown at the end of the sixth day of the week and that the first part of the new calendar day is referred to as “evening”. You can call it Saturday (Sunday if you’re in Europe) or Bob or anything else that you like. It is still the seventh day. What “new calendar” are you talking about? Yes, the seventh day in Jewish observance starts at evening of the sixth day. So, Jesus is buried before sundown on the sixth day. Evening comes and morning follows, the seventh day, during which time Jesus remains buried. Evening comes and morning follows the first day, at which point Jesus is raised on the first day. Re-reading your posts, (in which you are really not being clear what you are trying to say), it would seem that you are making some big deal that Mark 9 says that “Jesus was risen early the first day of the week.” Now, if you are trying to argue that Jesus probably rose on the seventh day, the Sabbath, and his resurrection was simply discovered on the first day, then you are going to have to come up with a bit of a better, (and clearer), argument. In that culture, that counted days beginning with the day during which one was speaking, Jesus rose on the third day: Friday/sixth day of week/first counting day/death and burial. Saturday/seventh day of week/second counting day/remains in tomb Sunday/first day of week/ third counting day/resurrection. The earliest reference to the resurrection is Paul’s letter to the Corinthians 15:4, “And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day. . .” Regardless of any passages of scripture to which Paul alludes, Paul’s claim was “the third day” and Mark 16:9 corresponds with that. Similarly, Mark 9:31 and Mark 10:34 refer to being raised on the third day, so the author of Mark 16:9 is consistent with the story he is continuing. If you are making some other argument, you need to lay it out in such a way that we can understand what you are claiming. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-16-9/634060/27 "2012-09-09T16:29:58Z")
The ISO 8601 week is defined as starting on Monday and ending with Sunday. In that system the 7th day is Sunday. Not that it relates to the bible in anyway. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-16-9/634060/28 "2012-09-09T16:48:38Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > The ISO 8601 week is defined as starting on Monday and ending with Sunday. In that system the 7th day is Sunday. > > Not that it relates to the bible in anyway. True, it does not relate to the bible. In addition, I have seen calendars in which Sunday was 0 and Saturday was 6. (Since the business week has begun on Monday in Europe for several centuries, Monday winds up as day 1 by default in business-based calendars. That, however, is based upon Christianity moving its day of worship to the first day of the week, Sunday, based on the belief that the Resurrection occurred on that day, so the “Monday is Day 1” is actually a change that proceeds from the discussion of this thread.) ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-16-9/634060/29 "2012-09-09T16:50:17Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > True, it does not relate to the bible. In addition, I have seen calendars in which Sunday was 0 and Saturday was 6. (Since the business week has begun on Monday in Europe for several centuries, Monday winds up as day 1 by default in business-based calendars. That, however, is based upon Christianity moving its day of worship to the first day of the week, Sunday, based on the belief that the Resurrection occurred on that day, so the “Monday is Day 1” is actually a change that proceeds from the discussion of this thread.) Yes, Just a common point of confusion, the only reason I mentioned it. ---
**Author:** ![rstrats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@rstrats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rstrats)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-16-9/634060/30 "2012-09-09T18:24:24Z")
, The Flying Dutchman, re: “ I responded to your suggestion that Jesus may have arisen the previous day but that the stone was rolled away the following day” I still don’t see your point. re: “Who else might refer to friday evening as Saturday ? “ No one that I know of. re: “…trying to understand where you were coming from with the claim that Saturday evening starts off the seventh day.” I’m coming from the generally accepted position that the scriptural new day starts at sundown of the previous day and begins the evening portion of the new day. ---
**Author:** ![Jambalaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jambalaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jambalaya)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-16-9/634060/31 "2012-09-09T18:29:20Z")
**Matthew 12:40** “For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” ---
**Author:** ![rstrats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@rstrats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rstrats)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-16-9/634060/32 "2012-09-09T18:41:17Z")
tomndebb, re: “What ‘new calendar’ are you talking about?” Not a new calendar, but the new (next) calendar day. re: “So, Jesus is buried before sundown on the sixth day.” Matthew 12:40 and Luke 24:21 indicate that the crucifixion could not have occurred any later than the fifth day. re: “… it would seem that you are making some big deal that Mark 9 says that ‘Jesus was risen early the first day of the week’”. Put in the phrase: “is the only scripture that” between “Mark 9" and the word “says”, and you’ve got it. re: “Now, if you are trying to argue that Jesus probably rose on the seventh day…” I’m not. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-16-9/634060/33 "2012-09-09T20:17:10Z")
Wait, this isn’t about Mark’s new TV set? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-16-9/634060/34 "2012-09-09T20:23:30Z")
> [@rstrats](#): > > The poster came back with: “Quote a published author who has done that.” - I have not yet been able to come up with one. Does anyone here know of one? My reply is what is the relevance of a published author over the word of God? Is not putting the credibility of a published author over the word of God as putting a lesser god over God? What biblical authority can he cite that instructs the people to place any faith in published authors instead of in God. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-16-9/634060/35 "2012-09-09T20:32:43Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > My reply is what is the relevance of a published author over the word of God? . . . Isaac Asimov said it, I believe it, that settles it. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-16-9/634060/36 "2012-09-09T22:53:46Z")
> [@rstrats](#): > > re: “So, Jesus is buried before sundown on the sixth day.” > > Matthew 12:40 and Luke 24:21 indicate that the crucifixion could not have occurred any later than the fifth day. Nope. Matthew has a number of references to things happening for three days, but they are contradicted by his other statements that refer to things happening “on the third day.” In fact, the only reference to “three days” that Matthew attributes to Jesus is the analogy to Jonah. The other “three day” references are to other people misquoting him. > [@](#): > > **Matthew 16:21** From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be **raised again the third day**. > **Matthew 17:23** And they shall kill him, and **the third day he shall be raised** again. > **Matthew 20:19** And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and **the third day he shall rise** again. > **Matthew 27:64** Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first. vs > [@](#): > > **Matthew 12:40** For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. > **Matthew 26:60** But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses, > **61** And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days. > **Matthew 27:63** Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again. Aside from the allusion to Jonah, Matthew consistently points to a resurrection “on the third day.” His other references to “three days” are quotes from people slandering or taunting Jesus. Luke, however, follows the normal reckoning, referring each time to the first day of the week as the third day: \*\*Luke 24 \*\* > [@](#): > > [sup]1[/sup] Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. > . . . > [sup] **6** [/sup] He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, > [sup] **7** [/sup] Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the **third day rise again**. > > . . . > [sup] **13** [/sup] And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs. > . . . > [sup] **21** [/sup] But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, **to day is the third day** since these things were done. I don’t know anyone who quotes Mark 16:9 to show that the resurrection occurred on the first day, since that belief, supported by all the internal evidence of the gospels, already points to Sunday as the day of the resurrection. Despite Mt 24:40, (an analogy contradicted by Mt 16:21, Mt 17:23, and Mt 27:64), and in accord with Luke 24:21–indeed the entire narrative of Luke 24–the entire history of the church has accepted the first day of the week as the day of resurrection and the new day of worship. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-16-9/634060/37 "2012-09-09T23:05:31Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > So if Jesus arose any earlier than Saturday evening, I’m sure the posted guard would have noticed and all hell would have broken loose. Well, nobody but Matthew seems to have noticed all the zombie saints walking around Jerusalem after the alleged resurrection. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-16-9/634060/38 "2012-09-09T23:22:31Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Isaac Asimov said it, I believe it, that settles it. Discussion over then, thank you for playing and enjoy your consolation prise. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2012, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-16-9/634060/39 "2012-09-10T21:01:11Z")
Some Evangelicals in the 1800s, followed by Armstrongists, took Jesus’ “three days in the heart of the Earth” as necessitating three actual days of burial, with a Thursday afternoon Death & Burial and a Sunday pre-Dawn Resurrection OR in the Armstrongist case, a Wed afternoon D&B with a Sat night Resurrection. However, I recently read a good Friday-to-Sunday traditional argument that “the heart of the Earth” was not a reference to death, burial, or Hades but a reference to the Hebrew Bible terms for Jerusalem being “the center of the Earth”, also “the apple of God’s eye” (KJV)- and since Jesus was referencing Jonah & the Whale & perhaps Sheol, the beginning of His own ordeal from His Thursday night arrest onward. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2012, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-16-9/634060/40 "2012-09-14T05:43:33Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Some Evangelicals in the 1800s, followed by Armstrongists, took Jesus’ “three days in the heart of the Earth” as necessitating three actual days of burial, with a Thursday afternoon Death & Burial and a Sunday pre-Dawn Resurrection OR in the Armstrongist case, a Wed afternoon D&B with a Sat night Resurrection. > > However, I recently read a good Friday-to-Sunday traditional argument that “the heart of the Earth” was not a reference to death, burial, or Hades but a reference to the Hebrew Bible terms for Jerusalem being “the center of the Earth”, also “the apple of God’s eye” (KJV)- and since Jesus was referencing Jonah & the Whale & perhaps Sheol, the beginning of His own ordeal from His Thursday night arrest onward. Well, jesus’ suffering was meant as a redemption for all mankind, or at least for those willing to accept it. So, if in death he were not consigned to wrestle with Phil (the prince of insufficient light) but instead got to have a beer with dad, does that diminish his sacrifice? Really, he suffered for a day or two, with an predestined end readily in sight. What is that to an immortal? Seems like a pretty pathetic excuse for suffering and and sacrifice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-16-9/634060.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-16-9/634060.md?page=3)