# Mark Levin is Wrong (And This Is a Conservative Speaking) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 5, 2010, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762 "2010-02-05T03:55:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/21 "2010-02-05T19:01:20Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, he can be a Nazi and a communist at the same time, so he can be a Muslim and a Jew at the same time too, right? And a Christian\*! Forget about Jeremiah Wright and the “radical, racist,” [Trinity United Church of Christ](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity_United_Church_of_Christ) a predominantly black church on the southeast side of Chicago, the largest church affiliated with the United Church of Christ, a predominantly white Christian denomination with roots in Congregationalism, which branched from American Puritanism already? CMC fnord! \*That’s why Obama is the greatest President this country has ever had … everyone can have a lame-ass reason to hate him! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/22 "2010-02-05T19:07:51Z")
> [@Slypork](#): > > Just an example off the top of my head, she was reluctant to label the Fort Hood shooter Maj. Nidal Hasan as a terrorist but Scott Roeder, the man who shot the abortion doctor George Tiller, is a terrorist. Both did their acts for religious reasons. Both are terrorists. Religiously inspired violence =/= terrorism. Violence aimed at forcing political or social change = terrorism. Roeder killed George Tiller in order to prevent him and other doctors from performing abortions. Hasan shot a bunch of Marines without an apparent specific goal beyond shooting a bunch of Marines. So her reluctance to label Hasan as a terrorist is defensible. It doesn’t mean she thinks he’s any less of a douche than Roeder. ---
**Author:** ![Slypork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@Slypork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slypork)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/23 "2010-02-05T19:33:58Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Religiously inspired violence =/= terrorism. > > Violence aimed at forcing political or social change = terrorism. Roeder killed George Tiller in order to prevent him and other doctors from performing abortions. Hasan shot a bunch of Marines without an apparent specific goal beyond shooting a bunch of Marines. > > So her reluctance to label Hasan as a terrorist is defensible. It doesn’t mean she thinks he’s any less of a douche than Roeder. Please tell me you’re kidding. [He](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/21/nidal-hasan-emails-could-_n_366326.html) **\_** [is](http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hbpoJwDLbBcl3rpq0VWpuiL9fb7g) **\_** [a](http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2010/01/senior-administration-official-fort-hood-shootings-act-of-terrorism.html) **\_** [terrorist](http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gklV3foHEV2S7J3A1yglNAKpsOcA). ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/24 "2010-02-05T20:23:41Z")
> [@Slypork](#): > > Let me rephrase it: I know a lot of conservatives who are embarrassed by that crowd. And yet, their ratings indicate that many are decidedly **not** “embarrassed by that crowd”. Now, concerning perceptions of Levin, Savage, Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity: > [@](#): > > They all consider that group to be the media equivilant of the homeless guy on the street corner screaming about how the aliens have taken over the government so they can put implants in our teeth and then steel cow fetuses to be made into footballs (I’m not making this up. I heard a guy downtown actually saying this). Versus your perception of Rachel Maddow: > [@](#): > > Not so much the subject matter as the attitude of, “I’m so smart and the Republicans are so dumb.” You do see the vast gulf between these, right? Thank you for making my point for me. ---
**Author:** ![Slypork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@Slypork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slypork)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/25 "2010-02-05T21:01:22Z")
> [@Digital\_Stimulus](#): > > And yet, their ratings indicate that many are decidedly **not** “embarrassed by that crowd”. > > Now, concerning perceptions of Levin, Savage, Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity: > > Versus your perception of Rachel Maddow: > > You do see the vast gulf between these, right? > > Thank you for making my point for me. OK, remove her from the list. She just rubs me the wrong way and, perhaps improperly, I lumped her in with her comrades 😉 at Air America. _Mea culpa_ What about the rest of the knuckleheads on the left? Do the people on the left point at them in pride and say, “Wow, I am so glad that Michael Moore is on my side. Olbermann is an impartial, objective journalist. Ed Schultz is such a rational commentator. And that Chris Matthews never makes statements that are over-the-top or would say something extraordinarily embarrassing.” Can you honestly say that their rhetoric over the past 8 years against Bush or their fellating of the current president are any less loony than the way the freaks on the right tongue-bathed Bush’s balls and now say that Obama is the anti-Christ? Both sides are entrenched in their views, constitutionally incapable of conceiving that the other side might not be as abhorrent as they had been portrayed. If that thought should somehow pierce through their ideologically reinforced craniums I’m sure we’d hear the opening bars of \* Also Sprach Zarathustra\*. I watch Fox, then I watch MSNBC. Then I throw up in my mouth a little at the thought of how many people form their political views based on the drivel that spews from the mouths of these microcephalic monkeys. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/26 "2010-02-05T21:57:46Z")
Let’s continue with this hijack, as I find it infinitely more interesting than the OP. 😃 > [@Slypork](#): > > OK, remove her from the list. She just rubs me the wrong way and, perhaps improperly, I lumped her in with her comrades 😉 at Air America. _Mea culpa_ No worries. It’s just that referring to Maddow as an example of “lefty lunacy” is a baffling thing to me – and one I see often. At least you can say that you’ve watched the show, if only a few times; I get the sense that many who accuse her of such (e.g., Bush 41) are indulging in lazy ignorance. > [@](#): > > What about the rest of the knuckleheads on the left? You’ll note that I didn’t defend the others. Probably the next most sensible commentator on your list is Olbermann – but let’s face it, there’s good reason he got the sendup from both Ben Affleck on SNL and Jon Stewart on TDS. > [@](#): > > Can you honestly say that their rhetoric over the past 8 years against Bush or their fellating of the current president are any less loony than the way the freaks on the right tongue-bathed Bush’s balls and now say that Obama is the anti-Christ? Yes, I can; IMHO, you’re veering off into willful ignorance here. Or, at best, an oversized _tu quoque_. The primary reason being that there were 8 years of actual Bush actions on which to form opinion; there’s been just over 1 year of Obama. And there’s a clear difference to me between, say, being an anti-Iraq War fanatic and believing the sitting President is the fucking _anti-Christ_. But then, that’s OK – I have no problem with maintaining a difference of opinion, as it seems more a question of degree than fundamental disagreement. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/27 "2010-02-05T22:03:17Z")
Maybe you shouldn’t watch either. It seems you’ve bought Fox n’ friends’ marketing line that there is an equivalence between their shenanigans and others. Shame, really. But not as great a shame as anyone taking Mark Levin seriously. I miss Bob Grant. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/28 "2010-02-05T22:34:10Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, he can be a Nazi and a communist at the same time, so he can be a Muslim and a Jew at the same time too, right? Neither eat pork, after all. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/29 "2010-02-05T22:51:23Z")
Moved from The BBQ Pit to Great Debates. **Gfactor** Pit Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Peanut\_Gallery](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/838e76/32.png) [@Peanut\_Gallery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peanut_Gallery)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/30 "2010-02-05T22:59:17Z")
Levin is hilarious. I tune in occasionally for laughs. I wish him well in primary-ing all the Rs he can, and McCain is the most delicious target of them all. It is funny that \*this \*is the thing that \*\*Curtis \*\*finds him wrong about, as if he was making sense right up until he went for McCain. The joke is on you, Curtis. Levin thinks you’re even stupider than I do. It is obvious from 5 minutes of his program that he does not take his audience seriously at all (likewise Rush, Sean etc). And it is fucking golden that he has an ABC news ticker on his website. The liberal media is invading! And for the hijackers… Maddow does not belong on that list, but the rest could. It is false that “The Left has just as many crazies talking!” As for the knuckleheads on the left that DO exist, you have to look hard to find them. You can get at least 12 solid hours of right wing radio madness every single day in pretty much every corner of America. I live an hour from San Francisco, and I have (had?) no local Air America affiliate. Michael Moore? He has a blog I’m sure, probably not updated often. His exposure is pretty far short of 3-hour blocks of ranting every day. Olbermann has a daily show (60-90 min?) and he makes an effort at being as bombastic as Rush, but he doesn’t hold a candle. Nor does he have the audience. Any TV-lefty-crazy you can find is easily matched at Fox. As far as Curtis’s specific complaint with Levin goes, there is room for comparison to DailyKos. They are also out to primary Ds who aren’t radical enough, and it is pretty much just as bad an idea for the party in question. I think the size of the audiences for right wing madness vs left wing madness says a lot about what conservatives take seriously. And Hasan was a terrorist, just not as successful as Roeder. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/31 "2010-02-05T23:13:09Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Just want to mention in passing that Mark Levin is a weaselly little turd who uses an echo chamber effect on-air to boost his squirrely voice. > > Even on the rare occasions I agree with him he makes me nauseous. > > I’m not surprised to hear that he’s pushing to get McCain beaten. Not enough Purity of Essence, I guess. [Not even Reagan had enough Purity of Essence.](http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat/500305/reagan_would_fail_purity_test_proposed_for_gop) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/32 "2010-02-05T23:14:15Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > Neither eat pork, after all. 😉 Obama, of course, would – but only if it’s live and squealing. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/33 "2010-02-06T00:35:52Z")
> [@Peanut\_Gallery](#): > > It is false that “The Left has just as many crazies talking!” As for the knuckleheads on the left that DO exist, you have to look hard to find them. You can get at least 12 solid hours of right wing radio madness every single day in pretty much every corner of America. The single best analogy I’ve seen was posted by **Revenant Threshold** in another thread (paraphrased): Yes, both 2 and 10 and bigger than 1, but that doesn’t mean that 2 equals 10. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/34 "2010-02-06T02:59:58Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > This is both frustrating and hopeful for me, as given my politics I’d LOVE to see the McCain-type Republicans split off from the teabaggers and hopefully form a sane fiscal conservative social liberal party. Which would be moderate Libertarians/Rockefeller Republicans. My dream party on the other hand would be the opposite-socially conservative and economically moderate (sort of the like the old New Deal Democrats under Truman). ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/35 "2010-02-06T03:01:46Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Are you seriously trying to make decent conservatives in safe Senate seats like John McCain lose? I certainly hope so. A real conservative has needed to ask McCain to step outside for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/36 "2010-02-06T04:28:51Z")
I’d take McCain over a “real conservative” any day of the week. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/37 "2010-02-06T19:44:15Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I’d take McCain over a “real conservative” any day of the week. I’d take a parrot, a dead one, over a “real conservative” any day of the week. But I applaud the ultraconservatives’ efforts to destroy the Republican Party from within. Perhaps next time around the Dems will be able to ignore theor own Blue Dogs and pass something meaningful. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/38 "2010-02-06T20:14:16Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I’d take a parrot, a dead one, over a “real conservative” any day of the week. But I applaud the ultraconservatives’ efforts to destroy the Republican Party from within. Perhaps next time around the Dems will be able to ignore theor own Blue Dogs and pass something meaningful. So that our nation can become an European social democracy. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/39 "2010-02-06T20:20:43Z")
> [@Slypork](#): > > Just an example off the top of my head, she was reluctant to label the Fort Hood shooter Maj. Nidal Hasan as a terrorist but Scott Roeder, the man who shot the abortion doctor George Tiller, is a terrorist. That is an example of Maddow’s good sense, rationality, and responsible journalism. Given the initially available information, the Hasan case had two reasonable explanations (terrorism or garden-variety snap into insanity); the Tiller case had only one (terrorism). ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/40 "2010-02-06T20:22:23Z")
> [@Slypork](#): > > Please tell me you’re kidding. [He](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/21/nidal-hasan-emails-could-_n_366326.html) **\_** [is](http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hbpoJwDLbBcl3rpq0VWpuiL9fb7g) **\_** [a](http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2010/01/senior-administration-official-fort-hood-shootings-act-of-terrorism.html) **\_** [terrorist](http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gklV3foHEV2S7J3A1yglNAKpsOcA). Come back when you figure out the admittedly abstruse and obscure concept of “initially available information”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762.md?page=3)