# Mark Levin is Wrong (And This Is a Conservative Speaking) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 5, 2010, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762 "2010-02-05T03:55:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2010, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/61 "2010-02-09T05:29:11Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > He was as liberal as Lieberman or the other Rust Belt Democrats. He was a RINO. Yeah, uh, speaking as a guy who’s actually been voting for Spector for a long time, he’s a smart guy who doesn’t toe the party line all the time but votes his conscience. Voting for Spector can always been done with a clear conscience. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2010, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/62 "2010-02-09T05:31:30Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > He was as liberal as Lieberman or the other Rust Belt Democrats. He was a RINO. How does that translate to “spineless?” ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2010, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/63 "2010-02-09T08:01:17Z")
> [@Slypork](#): > > So the right needs to hold off until he finishes his first term before bad-mouthing him? When is he a fair target? It’s not clear to me how you extrapolated that from what I said. As I analogized upthread – both 2 and 10 are greater than 1, but that doesn’t make 2 and 10 equal. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2010, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/64 "2010-02-09T08:11:07Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > How does that translate to “spineless?” Liberals are, apparently by definition, spineless. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2010, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/65 "2010-02-09T08:23:13Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > How does that translate to “spineless?” Apparently it takes courage to do what everyone around you is doing. Specter was just a coward who refused to toe the party line. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/66 "2010-02-10T01:33:13Z")
Than Specter should have from the start have been an Independent or Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/67 "2010-02-10T04:03:17Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Good Lord, in what way is John Mccain not a conservative? If Mccain is not a conservative, then neither was Ronald Reagan. [Neither was Ronald Reagan.](http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat/500305/reagan_would_fail_purity_test_proposed_for_gop) ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/68 "2010-02-10T05:19:33Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Than Specter should have from the start have been an Independent or Democrat. You are aware, of course, of his views on gun control (against), national security (pro-PATRIOT Act, pro-FISA), crime (get tougher on it), etc. Are you of the belief that being a Republican (or, for that matter, a member of any political party), naturally implies lockstep adherence to the party’s platform? Personally, I think a few points of honest disagreement with a party’s planks while sticking close to the meat of the platform is a sign of a better-than-average politician, someone who can be trusted to think for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/69 "2010-02-10T05:20:53Z")
The entire span of human political thought is encompassed by the Republican platform, silly. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/70 "2010-02-11T03:20:20Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > You are aware, of course, of his views on gun control (against), national security (pro-PATRIOT Act, pro-FISA), crime (get tougher on it), etc. > > Are you of the belief that being a Republican (or, for that matter, a member of any political party), naturally implies lockstep adherence to the party’s platform? > > Personally, I think a few points of honest disagreement with a party’s planks while sticking close to the meat of the platform is a sign of a better-than-average politician, someone who can be trusted to think for themselves. The views on gun control and crime at least are held by most reasonable Americans whether liberal or conservative-including most Blue Dog and Rust Belt Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/71 "2010-02-11T03:57:41Z")
That doesn’t make them non-conservative positions, and his positions on PATRIOT and FISA are straight up right wing. I would still like to know why you called him “spineless.” Was he spineless when he served in the Air Force during the Korean war? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/72 "2010-02-11T04:09:47Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > That doesn’t make them non-conservative positions, and his positions on PATRIOT and FISA are straight up right wing. > > I would still like to know why you called him “spineless.” Was he spineless when he served in the Air Force during the Korean war? He’s switched parties TWICE in his life first from Democrat to Republican and than Republican to Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/73 "2010-02-11T04:12:05Z")
You know who else switched parties? Ronald Reagan. How does that translate to “spineless?” I ask again, was Arlen Specter spineless when he joined the Air Force during the Korean War? What couragous acts have you performed for your country that makes you feel entitled to call veterans “spineless?” ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/74 "2010-02-11T04:24:06Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You know who else switched parties? Ronald Reagan. He did it as a private person not as a politician. > [@](#): > > How does that translate to “spineless?” I ask again, was Arlen Specter spineless when he joined the Air Force during the Korean War? What couragous acts have you performed for your country that makes you feel entitled to call veterans “spineless?” I’m not saying he has a spineless personality-he’s spineless in politics. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/75 "2010-02-11T04:34:17Z")
Reagan switched in _order_ to run for Governor because it was more politically expedient to run as a Republican than as a Democrat. You’re going to have to do better than that Specter switched parties to call him spineless.You clearly know nothing of the guy’s personality. He’s actually been pretty tough. He’s a spitter. I think that if you want to be taken seriously in political discussions, taht you should make an effort to inform yourself with something better than what you read in Sean Hannity books and hear on Glenn Beck. You often sound like you’re regurgitating talk radio memes, not really thinking for yourself. Politics, and the world as a whole, are not as simplistically black and white as you currently think. Learn some nuance. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/76 "2010-02-11T04:35:46Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Reagan switched in _order_ to run for Governor because it was more politically expedient to run as a Republican than as a Democrat. > > You’re going to have to do better than that Specter switched parties to call him spineless.You clearly know nothing of the guy’s personality. He’s actually been pretty tough. He’s a spitter. > > I think that if you want to be taken seriously in political discussions, taht you should make an effort to inform yourself with something better than what you read in Sean Hannity books and hear on Glenn Beck. You often sound like you’re regurgitating talk radio memes, not really thinking for yourself. Politics, and the world as a whole, are not as simplistically black and white as you currently think. Learn some nuance. I’m not big fans of Beck or Hannity or Limbaugh or Palin or Levin. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/77 "2010-02-11T04:37:49Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > He did it as a private person not as a politician. OK, how about Winston Churchill, who switched from the Conservatives to the Liberals in 1904, and back to the Conservatives in 1924? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/78 "2010-02-11T14:51:30Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > The views on gun control and crime at least are held by most reasonable Americans whether liberal or conservative-including most Blue Dog and Rust Belt Democrats. That’s fine–but you want to address the substantial portion of my post, or those of Diogenes? How does any of this make him spineless? Are you asserting that the political parties in this country have not changed and he’s spineless because a new party obviously means he’s a waffler? Are you asserting that not following in lockstep with your chosen party, once chosen, makes you weak? Are you asserting that you are the arbiter of what’s a ‘real’ Republican and he’s spineless for running as one all these years when he wasn’t one? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/79 "2010-02-12T01:59:41Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > That’s fine–but you want to address the substantial portion of my post, or those of Diogenes? How does any of this make him spineless? > > Are you asserting that the political parties in this country have not changed and he’s spineless because a new party obviously means he’s a waffler? > > Are you asserting that not following in lockstep with your chosen party, once chosen, makes you weak? > > Are you asserting that you are the arbiter of what’s a ‘real’ Republican and he’s spineless for running as one all these years when he wasn’t one? My main problem with Specter was not that he was a Republican but that he became a Democrat briefly giving them a sixty seat majority in the Senate. ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762/80 "2010-02-12T02:06:24Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I’d take a parrot, a dead one, over a “real conservative” any day of the week. But I applaud the ultraconservatives’ efforts to destroy the Republican Party from within. Perhaps next time around the Dems will be able to ignore theor own Blue Dogs and pass something meaningful. He’s not dead! He’s just pinin’ for the fjords! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-levin-is-wrong-and-this-is-a-conservative-speaking/527762.md?page=5)