# Mark McGwires brother writes book about Marks steroid use **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 23, 2009, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-mcgwires-brother-writes-book-about-marks-steroid-use/482575 "2009-01-23T03:49:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2009, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-mcgwires-brother-writes-book-about-marks-steroid-use/482575/41 "2009-01-24T05:52:29Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > So did Sammy Sosa’s body. Look at pictures of him, McGwire and Bonds earlier in their careers and then look at the “after” photos…all three of those guys bulked up beyond belief in a short period of time, and simply “working out” isn’t going to explain that away. All three of them used. Fuck them and their tainted bullshit records! WEll, as to Sosa, the fact of the matter is that there is no evidence he took steroids. None. Scores and scores of major league players HAVE been linked to steroids, caught ordering steroids and HGH, claimed to have been seen with steroids by eyewitnesses, but Sammy Sosa has never been among them. When you have some evidence, let’s see it. As to the allegedly unusual nature of Sosa’s growth, 1. All players get bulkier as they age with access to major league training. Nothing unusual about that. What is unusual is extremely rapid muscle gain, as Barry Bonds demonstrated in 1998-1999, and particular other symptoms of steroid use such as “Fat head.” 2. Looking at pictures of Sosa as a kid and as a veteran, he’s bigger, but not ridiculously so, like Bonds. 3. Sosa’s sudden run of homers was bizarre, but remember that he was a power hitting prospect very early on and showed very good power with the Cubs for several years. He may simply have been the beneficiary of a league-wide power surge. He changed his hitting approach in 1998, taking many more pitches, and if you adjust his homers for that fact and the league-wide increase in homers it’s not quite that dramatic a jump. I’m not saying I know Sosa DIDN’T roid up, but there is in fact no evidence he did and you’d think that if all those other guys have gotten caught there’d at least be a shred of evidence against Sosa. But there is not. ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2009, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-mcgwires-brother-writes-book-about-marks-steroid-use/482575/42 "2009-01-24T13:50:59Z")
As mentioned, “steroids” is a very general term with an ever-changing definition. For example, the “clear” that Bonds used was both legal and within the rules. It wasn’t considered a “steroid” at the time, and there is no study showing it enhances muscle growth. It was later classified as a “steroid” when the definition changed to include many more substances with no evidence required, but it was not made illegal retroactively for Bonds to use it. > **[Bonds blockbuster: 'The Clear' was legal](https://sports.yahoo.com/li-clear011409.html)** > > Yahoo! Sports has reviewed testimony suggesting the designer drug central to BALCO was neither illegal nor a steroid. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2009, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-mcgwires-brother-writes-book-about-marks-steroid-use/482575/43 "2009-01-24T15:57:43Z")
Bonds was found to be a user when Balco became known. He was on a regime of drug use that was corroborated by Conte, his records, and his employees. Bonds trainer went to jail for steroid trafficking. I think Bonds is a big user and a hypocrite. Sosa did not suddenly become a home run hitter on par with McGwire ,without a reason. He did not fall off production in sheer coincidence to the steroid revelations. When Balco, which was a lab, was raided records showed they were involved in concocting enhancing agents and masking agents. They were into HGH and whatever else they could come up with up with. Bonds,McGwire,Sosa, Canseco and many others are just steroid players and have to be judged as such. Since pitchers and fielders were also using, I see it as a wash . ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-mcgwires-brother-writes-book-about-marks-steroid-use/482575/44 "2009-01-24T16:37:01Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Sosa did not suddenly become a home run hitter on par with McGwire ,without a reason. He did not fall off production in sheer coincidence to the steroid revelations. Who says? His prime was from age 25-35 (with the huge years coming from 30-33). From 25-30 he was a power hiter who was also a terrible judge of pitches and struck out constantly. In 1998 he changed his stance, upped his batting average considerably, and managed to hit a bunch of more home runs (which makes sense considering how he was connecting more). He also did not have any sudden drop off. His HR stats have slowly receded with age and are not out of line with a former power hitter approaching his 40s (who had trouble keeping up with the ball and had his average drop). Not only that, but the percentage of Sammy’s hits that were HRs has stayed pretty consistent at around 30% his entire career (except his first two years with the Cubs). ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2009, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-mcgwires-brother-writes-book-about-marks-steroid-use/482575/45 "2009-01-24T17:02:58Z")
[Suite 101 - How-tos, Inspiration and Other Ideas to Try](http://baseball.suite101.com/article.cfm/sammy_sosa_homers_and_steroids) Lots of people say he took them. I can hook him with statistics ,you think you exonerate him with stats. But he has been painted as a user for a long time. When Palmiero and Sosa were with the Orioles they were investigated. it is hard to prove without a confession. That is why Bonds is a free man and McGwire is listed for the HOF repeatedly. They would not take a blood test which would have totally removed suspicion. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2009, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-mcgwires-brother-writes-book-about-marks-steroid-use/482575/46 "2009-01-24T17:17:45Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > They would not take a blood test which would have totally removed suspicion. This is the part that nails it for me. If I were clean, and I knew that extensive testing would make me eligible for the HoF, and no testing would raise questions, I’d test until I ran out of blood. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2009, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-mcgwires-brother-writes-book-about-marks-steroid-use/482575/47 "2009-01-24T17:28:55Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > But ALL pitchers have to make the same motion, big men have been selected to play line for over a century, ALL boxers get hit in the head. They’re necessary components of the game. Steroids are not. It’s not a gray area; steroids are against the rules and using them is cheating. Period. Everyone does it to a different degree, and not all of it is necessary. Just, like performance enhancers, merely helpful. If a player takes a dangerous amount of over the counter supplements to enhance performance is that okay? He is putting himself is danger to aid performance, but it wouldn’t be illegal. For that matter what is legal and what isn’t is not exactly consistent. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2009, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-mcgwires-brother-writes-book-about-marks-steroid-use/482575/48 "2009-01-24T17:30:30Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > And because he indignantly refused to take a voluntary test for steroids. Yeah, because you don’t get to drug test people just like you feel like having a witch hunt. ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-mcgwires-brother-writes-book-about-marks-steroid-use/482575/49 "2009-01-24T17:33:44Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > That is why Bonds is a free man Well, that and the fact that the substance he is accused of taking was legal and allowed by the rules. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-mcgwires-brother-writes-book-about-marks-steroid-use/482575/50 "2009-01-24T17:34:22Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > So did Sammy Sosa’s body. Look at pictures of him, McGwire and Bonds earlier in their careers and then look at the “after” photos…all three of those guys bulked up beyond belief in a short period of time, and simply “working out” isn’t going to explain that away. All three of them used. Fuck them and their tainted bullshit records! If the list of steroid users has showed us anything it is that you can’t tell who used and who didn’t by body type. He is big he is guilty is the 2nd stupidest argument that has come out of this. The first being is he had a weird career arc, he must be guilty. Because there was no one who had giant jumps in home-runs, or sudden collapses before the steroid era. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2009, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-mcgwires-brother-writes-book-about-marks-steroid-use/482575/51 "2009-01-24T17:37:54Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [Suite 101 - How-tos, Inspiration and Other Ideas to Try](http://baseball.suite101.com/article.cfm/sammy_sosa_homers_and_steroids) Lots of people say he took them. I can hook him with statistics ,you think you exonerate him with stats. But he has been painted as a user for a long time. When Palmiero and Sosa were with the Orioles they were investigated. it is hard to prove without a confession. That is why Bonds is a free man and McGwire is listed for the HOF repeatedly. They would not take a blood test which would have totally removed suspicion. A blood test would have absolutely not removed suspicion. People would say they stopped taking them earlier, or they are taking something that can’t be detected via blood. There is no way to prove a negative, so people will always believe these people took regardless of truth. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2009, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-mcgwires-brother-writes-book-about-marks-steroid-use/482575/52 "2009-01-24T17:42:06Z")
> [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > Yeah, because you don’t get to drug test people just like you feel like having a witch hunt. And you don’t get elected to the HoF because you claim you’re a good guy. If you are, you take a little test, prove it, and then we agree you’re good. You don’t wanna? That’s cool, you get to walk away with your money,and your records, but you don’t get election to the Hall and you don’t get a shred of respect from me. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-mcgwires-brother-writes-book-about-marks-steroid-use/482575/53 "2009-01-24T17:57:08Z")
> [@Carmady](#): > > Well, that and the fact that the substance he is accused of taking was legal and allowed by the rules. Lying to congress and investigators is another matter. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-mcgwires-brother-writes-book-about-marks-steroid-use/482575/54 "2009-01-24T17:57:27Z")
> [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > Yeah, because you don’t get to drug test people just like you feel like having a witch hunt. The story with Sosa is that he loudly proclaimed he was clean and was happy to take a blood test to prove it. Then someone asked him to take the blood test and he refused. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2009, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-mcgwires-brother-writes-book-about-marks-steroid-use/482575/55 "2009-01-24T17:59:46Z")
> [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > Everyone does it to a different degree, and not all of it is necessary. Just, like performance enhancers, merely helpful. If a player takes a dangerous amount of over the counter supplements to enhance performance is that okay? He is putting himself is danger to aid performance, but it wouldn’t be illegal. For that matter what is legal and what isn’t is not exactly consistent. You can get all philosophical about it, and end up with a steroid free-for-all, or you can be practical about it, and stop at least some drug abuse. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-mcgwires-brother-writes-book-about-marks-steroid-use/482575/56 "2009-01-24T19:28:35Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > no. It would not. There were tons of articles about it while it was going on. The press and news stories were endless. The World Series going down without Sosa and Mcgwire just accents their importance. This is idiotic. You’re saying that Sosa and McGwire “saved” baseball, but admit that the World Series suffered that year. How is that saving again? A year later and beyond, ratings went back to where they were before Sosa/McGwire. There is ZERO measurable increase afterwards, just as there was absolutely NO indication baseball was in a decline. But you’re not going to accept that, because you’ve convinced yourself of this poorly thought-out baseball meme. And you’re not going to honestly try to support your claim, otherwise you’d present one single solid fact to the table. Are you? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-mcgwires-brother-writes-book-about-marks-steroid-use/482575/57 "2009-01-24T19:40:01Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > But you’re not going to accept that, because you’ve convinced yourself of this poorly thought-out baseball meme. And you’re not going to honestly try to support your claim, otherwise you’d present one single solid fact to the table. Are you? Besides that, everyone knows Cal Ripken saved baseball when he smashed “The Streak” (capital T, capital S). ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2009, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-mcgwires-brother-writes-book-about-marks-steroid-use/482575/58 "2009-01-24T20:20:41Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > This is idiotic. You’re saying that Sosa and McGwire “saved” baseball, but admit that the World Series suffered that year. How is that saving again? A year later and beyond, ratings went back to where they were before Sosa/McGwire. There is ZERO measurable increase afterwards, just as there was absolutely NO indication baseball was in a decline. > > But you’re not going to accept that, because you’ve convinced yourself of this poorly thought-out baseball meme. And you’re not going to honestly try to support your claim, otherwise you’d present one single solid fact to the table. Are you? Follow slowly. Baseball was being ignored by most people. The homerun race brought the game to national attention. The World Series ratings are not an accurate indicator of baseballs popularity. When 2 small market teams play, viewership goes down. When the Yankees play LA, the rating go up. Are you suggesting a Yankee vs LA higher ratings in proof of them saving baseball? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2009, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-mcgwires-brother-writes-book-about-marks-steroid-use/482575/59 "2009-01-24T20:26:28Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Follow slowly. Baseball was being ignored by most people. The homerun race brought the game to national attention. > The World Series ratings are not an accurate indicator of baseballs popularity. No, but regular season attendance is. And Sammy and Big Mac didn’t really cause any great increase to that total. Baseball was already back. And in the last few years I’ve come to the realization it didn’t need saving. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-mcgwires-brother-writes-book-about-marks-steroid-use/482575/60 "2009-01-24T20:28:25Z")
[World Series television ratings - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Series_television_ratings) Here are the ratings. The Yankees and Sox draw higher ratings saving baseball in a rhythmic way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-mcgwires-brother-writes-book-about-marks-steroid-use/482575.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mark-mcgwires-brother-writes-book-about-marks-steroid-use/482575.md?page=4)