# Marketing question regarding guarantees **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 18, 2015, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marketing-question-regarding-guarantees/734981 "2015-10-18T04:55:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Terry\_Kennedy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c57346/32.png) [@Terry\_Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terry_Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marketing-question-regarding-guarantees/734981/21 "2015-10-19T03:10:37Z")
> [@pianodave](#): > > 1. From a marketing standpoint, does a guarantee that your product is superior ever backfire? I hear these guarantees an awful lot. Many companies don’t hesitate to claim that their product is superior to all competing products. Obviously, not everyone can be the best. Consumers will eventually come to a consensus of which companies’ products are higher in quality and which are lower. Doesn’t this reflect poorly on those companies whose products end up ranking lower in quality? The legal term is [puffery](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffery). The claim generally has to be something vague rather than specific - for example “The longest-lasting light bulb on the market” would likely not be actionable, but “Lasts 200,000 hours” would be. [I am not a lawyer, but I was a juror on a case where this was explained at painful length by experts.] > [@](#): > > People do like companies who stand behind their products. But that rings hollow if the product doesn’t rise to the standards set by its company. > > These money-back guarantees seem like a no-win situation. As mentioned by others, outfits like [The Retail Equation](https://www.theretailequation.com/consumers/FAQ) track “frequent returners” as well as other questionable behavior (purchasing an item with a credit card, returning it without receipt for store credit, using that to purchase something else and then returning that item with receipt for a cash refund). Amazon and other merchants with a time-limited refund policy do this because they have determined it is good for business and the few abuses don’t matter enough in the big picture. A “lifetime warranty” may or may not be infinite. The consumer may not have the original receipt (if required), the company may go out of business, etc. Some companies go out of their way to be difficult - one manufacturer of computer tape media advertises a lifetime warranty, but makes you provide the serial numbers when requesting a RMA. They will try to reject media as “too old” (implying it was worn out, which is not covered). I’ve had to argue with them multiple times that I am not responsible for the inventory rotation policies of their distributors if I get some media that has been sitting on a shelf for years. The whole thing was annoying enough that I purchased a new tape library and media from another manufacturer and never want to deal with the first manufacturer ever again. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marketing-question-regarding-guarantees/734981/22 "2015-10-19T03:59:03Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > It’s a lot easier now for retailers and manufacturers to track customer transactions, so if you abuse the return process one too many times, you may be instructed to take your business elsewhere. Forty some years ago, I worked for a potato chip company. We would get phone calls/letters saying that they had found a nut or bolt in a bag of chips. (It happened; the machines that filled them used vibrating chutes, and despite a regular schedule of checking nuts & bolts, occasionally one dropped into a bag. No problem, they were stainless steel and oiled with a food-grade edible lubricant.) The standard response was to request that they mail it to us, along with the bag if they still had that. When it arrived, they went to our ‘quality control department’ and she (1 person) did several things: - put the nut/bold/whatever into a box that went to the maintenance crew. - if the bag was included, recorded the production date/time stamped on it. - sent them a Thank-you letter, including a free coupon redeemable at any grocery store for two large size bags of our chips, and postage stamps equal to the amount they had spent mailing it in. - recorded their name, address, date, bag size, problem, etc. and filed it in a filing drawer. (Typed on a 3x5 card, it was that long ago.) Most customers were quite happy with this response. But there were some who saw it as an opportunity to take advantage. They would begin sending in repeated complaint letters, sometimes including hardware that was not even the type or size used on our machines. But these were caught, because of the record kept of problem letters. The policy was that after 3 complaints within a short time (like the same year), they got a much less friendly response, with no free coupons enclosed, and a statement like “_since you have so many problems with our product, we suggest that you may be more satisfied in the future if you purchase some other brand of potato chips_”. Even so, such customers were pretty infrequent. Easily outweighed by the others, who were quite pleased by our response, and who told others how we stood behind our product. Quite worthwhile for the company. ---
**Author:** ![qualityleashdog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/9f8e36/32.png) [@qualityleashdog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qualityleashdog)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marketing-question-regarding-guarantees/734981/23 "2015-10-19T04:24:45Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > There are companies like [this one](https://www.theretailequation.com/) that track customer returns across multiple retailers. If a customer is identified as a frequent returner, they may be considered to be abusing the privilege and future sales might be contingent on returns being disallowed. I don’t return a whole lot of stuff. But I’ve worked returns before and there are periods throughout the year where I seem to always have to make a trip to the return counter every time I go to the store. I’m experienced, but not habitual. I pay a lot with cash, too, especially for purchases that aren’t essential or are iffy. Cash helps expedite the return process, since you don’t have to checkup on credit to your card or who knows what may happen with a check. I am never asked for identification when I submit a return to a brick and mortar store. Not at the grocery, not at Walmart, not at the Home Improvement store, not a clothing store. I always keep my receipts though, especially for something I think may be returned. I worked home improvement once, and the only time we had to have ID was if someone was trying to return anything over $80 with no receipt. Even if they didn’t have the receipt, we could cross-reference by credit card/check, or they had the opportunity to leave a phone number. If they paid cash and didn’t leave a number, then we went to the ID request in case the return was later discovered to be fraudulent. On small dollar stuff, we were told to just refund or exchange and never get into an argument. We didn’t want to insult the customer and risk losing their business. I suspect these return tracking companies are claiming they know more than they really do. Their service might be helpful to stores that sell really expensive clothes to people that wear them once and return them every weekend, but probably not so much defense against the guy that does a return at the department store and hops over to the home improvement warehouse and so on down the line. And we did have workers that would take returns on power tools that were later discovered to be a box of rocks. If the guy at the return counter isn’t bright enough to open the box, he’s not going to be bright enough to follow policy and get the ID. Or else it was an inside job. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marketing-question-regarding-guarantees/734981/24 "2015-10-19T04:54:37Z")
> [@Terry\_Kennedy](#): > > The legal term is [puffery](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffery). The claim generally has to be something vague rather than specific - for example “The longest-lasting light bulb on the market” would likely not be actionable, but “Lasts 200,000 hours” would be. [I am not a lawyer, but I was a juror on a case where this was explained at painful length by experts.] (Advertising / consumer researcher here) You pretty much have it. The area in which advertisers usually face legal challenges (and why you so rarely see this sort of claim) is in direct product comparisons, such as "Consumers prefer Brand X over Brand Y’. A company which makes that sort of claim in advertising will invariably have their claim challenged immediately by the competitor (such claims typically go to the FTC). A company which is going to make that sort of claim will have been advised by their legal staff to have done a particular form of market research study specifically to support that claim. While the FTC has no hard-and-fast rules on this sort of research, there are some well-agreed-upon rules of thumb on that research (number of respondents, number of cities in which the research is done, etc.), all of which make it a very expensive piece of research – so much so that, in the 26 years in which I’ve worked in this industry, while I’ve had probably a dozen clients consider doing it, not one has actually followed through with the research (nor actually made that sort of advertising claim. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marketing-question-regarding-guarantees/734981/25 "2015-10-20T10:18:11Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Forty some years ago, I worked for a potato chip company. We would get phone calls/letters saying that they had found a nut or bolt in a bag of chips. (It happened; the machines that filled them used vibrating chutes, and despite a regular schedule of checking nuts & bolts, occasionally one dropped into a bag. No problem, they were stainless steel and oiled with a food-grade edible lubricant.) > > The standard response was to request that they mail it to us, along with the bag if they still had that. One of my managers had a ~$500 spigot in a sealed beer bottle on his desk for a while. How it got out to a customer without being noticed was a mistory to all, but engineering management wasn’t particularly impressed. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marketing-question-regarding-guarantees/734981/26 "2015-10-20T10:27:58Z")
> [@Terry\_Kennedy](#): > > . Some companies go out of their way to be difficult - one manufacturer of computer tape media advertises a lifetime warranty, but makes you provide the serial numbers when requesting a RMA. They will try to reject media as “too old” (implying it was worn out, which is not covered). I’ve had to argue with them multiple times that I am not responsible for the inventory rotation policies of their distributors if I get some media that has been sitting on a shelf for years. The whole thing was annoying enough that I purchased a new tape library and media from another manufacturer and never want to deal with the first manufacturer ever again. We provide a 4 year warrenty to our retailers. They are responsible for a 3 year warrenty. Mostly we don’t have warrenty failurse, and mostly they don’t leave stuff in stock for a year. It hasn’t been a problem. But if you did try to get a warrenty repair from us more than 4 years after manufacture, it would be annoying. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marketing-question-regarding-guarantees/734981/27 "2015-10-20T15:05:30Z")
In the aftermarket automotive parts industry, it seems to me that the “lifetime warranty” parts are often made as cheaply as possible, then sold at a higher price due to the warranty. The cheap cost of manufacture allows a profit even though a fair number of warranty replacements happen. A good business case, perhaps, but the store isn’t supplying the labor. After the third such water pump, I got a rebuilt OEM unit, which has so-far lasted as long as three of the lifetime warranty units. They also factor in how long people keep cars, especially after they start needing parts replaced. NAPA really didn’t think I’d still be driving that car 22 years after I bought the lifetime brake pads! Even non-thermal ink fades pretty badly on a receipt that old. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marketing-question-regarding-guarantees/734981/28 "2015-10-20T16:21:01Z")
> [@qualityleashdog](#): > > I’ve always wondered about mattresses that they sell on TV and you’re guaranteed to love it and they’ll even give you a 90 day in home trial for free. So you sleep on the bed for three months, and send it back, paying nothing. What do they do with a used mattress after you refuse to buy it? The short answer is that nobody\* ever returns a mattress after 90 days. I hardly ever get around to returning poorly fitting or defective _clothing_, let alone stuff that needs to be shipped. Nobody\* will keep the gigantic box it came in because it takes up too much space, and with or without the box shipping a mattress is a collossal pain in the rear. So if you take delivery of the mattress, they can pretty much mark you down as a final sale. \*or at least a tiny, tiny fraction. ---
**Author:** ![D18](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@D18](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D18)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marketing-question-regarding-guarantees/734981/29 "2015-10-20T17:44:30Z")
[Here](http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970203585004574392464143500106) is a WSJ article on a study suggesting that liberal return policies can increase sales, up the a certain poin. ---
**Author:** ![harmonicamoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@harmonicamoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harmonicamoon)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marketing-question-regarding-guarantees/734981/30 "2015-10-20T19:20:06Z")
One of the many reasons I enjoy shopping at Costco. Satisfaction guaranteed. I once returned a basket of strawberries. They weren’t sweet. Got a refund, with no problem. ---
**Author:** ![harmonicamoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@harmonicamoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harmonicamoon)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marketing-question-regarding-guarantees/734981/31 "2015-10-20T19:26:33Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > REI used to replace an item if it had problems no matter how old it was. But it got abused so now they limit it to 1 year after purchase. > > I returned a rain coat after a few years without any receipt and I got a new one. I remember REI’s old return policy. It was great! They would have a garage sale every month. This was to resell the returned items. A lot of great buys there. My daughter once asked REI if they ever refused a return. This was before the return change of policy. The employe said she could remember only one time. A customer returned a sleeping bag. When asked why it was being returned, the customer said, “My dog peed on it”. They refused the return. ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marketing-question-regarding-guarantees/734981/32 "2015-10-20T21:39:24Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I used to work for the company that owns Sperry, the original boat shoe company. Those shoes came with a true lifetime warranty and they had procedures documented for how to deal with issues for very old merchandise. Those procedures basically amounted to ‘just give them anything reasonable they ask for’. A documented case was a doctor that bought a pair in the 1970’s and was furious when they wore out so he called in demanding a replacement (this was in 2000). They gave him a brand new pair that also kept the same warranty even though that had long been discontinued for everyone else. > > I have a small collection of Victorinox Swiss Army knives that I love and keep one with me at all times. They also have a lifetime warranty. Any time one of them develops the smallest flaw, I send them back to their service center in Connecticut for a $5 return shipping fee. They always just give me a brand new one although I think you can insist that they recondition your existing one if it has sentimental value. > > LL Bean also has a very generous return policy that I am going to use in the near future. I bought one of their leather bomber jackets about 5 years ago. The overall quality of the leather and other key components is superb but they made a mistake with the liner. It started developing small rips in the first year and those have grown ever since. I want to keep the jacket for life especially because it is well broken in and otherwise excellent but they are going to have to fix the liner because it is faulty. > > My uncle had a very nice but long discontinued Daisy air rifle from the 1960’s that he uses to keep pests away from his porch. It finally developed a leak in the air cylinder so he sent it back after 35+ years with a note to fix it. They not only found a way to fix it, they reconditioned the entire thing to be like new again. > > Believe it or not, it doesn’t cost companies much to run such programs and the benefits are huge. Most people can’t even be bothered to send in rebate coupons for things they buy this week let alone follow-up on warranties from decades ago but many companies really will honor them if you are bold enough to make a claim. It is good and fairly cheap PR for them because it makes them sound trustworthy by word of mouth. That is very difficult to buy just through ads. I bought an L.L Bean backpack for my daughter when she was in high school. It was monogrammed with her initials. When it came, she wasn’t happy with the color. I called them, and they sent a new one in her color, free of charge, and told me to keep the old one. That’s great service. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marketing-question-regarding-guarantees/734981/33 "2015-10-22T07:48:58Z")
> [@Honey](#): > > I bought an L.L Bean backpack for my daughter when she was in high school. It was monogrammed with her initials. When it came, she wasn’t happy with the color. I called them, and they sent a new one in her color, free of charge, and told me to keep the old one. That’s great service. Many years L L Bean sold shirts sewn with a gusset under the arm (a design feature that gives better fit and mobility). Great service would be if they still sold shirts like that… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marketing-question-regarding-guarantees/734981.md?page=1)