# Marley--here we go again. **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [May 14, 2013, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marley-here-we-go-again/658321 "2013-05-14T16:00:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marley-here-we-go-again/658321/101 "2013-05-15T02:08:09Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > It seems you answered your own question. If NO rule is broken, why should a mod ASSUME that one will be and post a mod note? Yet they do. You and I are just ordinary humans. **Marley** has those remarkable Pre-Cog abilities. Sheeze, didn’t you see Minority Report? You can’t expect someone with those amazing abilities to not use them! Perhaps he should change his handle to simply The Pre-Cog Mod. At least when a poster reads one of his moderations notes based on his premonition he’ll be reminded right there by the name and say, “Oh well, it’s the Pre-Cog Mod, so he must have a point.” ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marley-here-we-go-again/658321/102 "2013-05-15T02:12:10Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Because people react to provocations, both real and perceived. But when your moderation is the provocation itself, you’re _not_ helping. You actually derail the discussions more than what you feel you must moderate might result in. It’s amazing that even after all the threads started in this forum calling you to the carpet for it, not to mention side discussions within them, that you don’t get this. ---
**Author:** ![missred](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/missred/32/14096_2.png) [@missred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missred)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marley-here-we-go-again/658321/103 "2013-05-15T02:28:05Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Because people react to provocations, both real and perceived. **tomndebb** and I have both commented on this: the role of a moderator in a discussion isn’t just to penalize people for breaking the rules, it’s to keep the discussion on track and going. The penalties we use are a piece of that, but not they are not the whole deal or the purpose of moderating. There are limits to how many threads we can watch and this isn’t a televised presidential debate (in terms of moderator involvement, importance, or any other way), **but we’re not the thread cops**. RE: bolded text. So, if you’re not thread cops, you still will be pulling a poster over for doing 45 in a 45, not ticketing but merely inconveniencing him? No wonder I don’t drive in GD much. Were the posts inspired? No. Were they insulting? No. Were they offensive to rational people who can accept that others have other views? No. Were they in violation of a stated rule? No. Looking at **Oak** ’s join date, he’s managed to be on here for a few years without getting himself banned. I think he can be counted on to behave himself at least as well as your “different” but harmless uncle at the family reunion without too much help. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marley-here-we-go-again/658321/104 "2013-05-15T02:46:28Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > As soon as the thing you made up becomes a rule. (Never.) 😉 As I always explain when this gets asked, **Der Trihs** and many other people of any and all political persuasions have been modded for off-topic or otherwise unwanted posts. The moderator instruction wasn’t “all posts must be constructive and on topic,” it was: > > **Der Trihs** has often been accused of making ludicrous generalizations, but he typically doesn’t respond to people’s ideas by literally saying “Boo hiss.” No–he threadshits by saying “All Christians/Republicans are evil/hate women”. Which is just as threadshitty as “boo hiss” and actually less constructive. People give “boo, hiss” all the well-deserved contempt it deserves, while the Trihs-style spewage poisons the debate. PS–I appreciate your response here, even if I disagree with it. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marley-here-we-go-again/658321/105 "2013-05-15T02:50:39Z")
> [@Habakkuk3](#): > > Of course I have never been mocked by any other posters, > and so continue to love everybody here. Meta, breaking down the fourth wall like that. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marley-here-we-go-again/658321/106 "2013-05-15T02:55:22Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > No–he threadshits by saying “All Christians/Republicans are evil/hate women”. Which is just as threadshitty as “boo hiss” and actually less constructive. People give “boo, hiss” all the well-deserved contempt it deserves, while the Trihs-style spewage poisons the debate. I agree, and wish that folks like Der Trihs would be limited to participating in one thread about their weird conspiracyesque theories. If your explanation for all the world’s problems is one simple fact (REPUBLICANS ARE EVIL! or whatever), then one thread ought to be enough for you to explain it in. When it shows up elsewhere, people tend to think that the good sir posting it has made a mistake and will see the error of his ways with just a little nudging, and that gets the thread hopelessly off-track. It certainly doesn’t lead to good discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marley-here-we-go-again/658321/107 "2013-05-15T04:45:58Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Because "Christians suxk!’ or “Dur–tighty-righties are teh bad” or “Republicans just want to kill women” really are neither on topic or constructive. (For that matter, “the usual suspects” referring to other posters, on the right) > > I support this new standard and I think Oak’s postings are (as usual) masterpieces of whiny writing and as someone on his side, I’m embarrassed by them, but somehow there seem to be several long-term poster who get a pass because they’ve always threadshitted (threadshat?) and I’d like to see that change. Der gets a pass because he doesn’t break the rules generally. He puts forth substantive opinions (unlike most of Oak’s material from the linked thread)-- but almost always without substantiation I’ll readily concede. In fact I lampoon him for it on occasion. Still, there’s a distinction (a substantive one!) I gotta admit though that Der has grown on me: I find his attacks on agnostics particularly hilarious, probably because I am one. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marley-here-we-go-again/658321/108 "2013-05-15T05:34:30Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Der gets a pass because he doesn’t break the rules generally. He puts forth substantive opinions (unlike most of Oak’s material from the linked thread)-- but almost always without substantiation I’ll readily concede. You and I have dramatically different opinions on what would be considered “substantive”. How is claiming that “the typical American woman thinks all men are rapists and monsters” and also arguing that all men should secretly videotape their sexual encounters because women are so prone to falsely accuse them of rape “substantive arguments” and how are they not “being a jerk”? Would you feel it a substantive argument to insist that all black men be under constant surveillance to ensure they’re not committing crimes or that “the typical Jew can’t be trusted because they’re famous for their greed”? Would you insist that such claims aren’t thread shitting and somehow aren’t “being a jerk”? If so, please explain. > [@](#): > > I gotta admit though that Der has grown on me: I find his attacks on agnostics particularly hilarious, probably because I am one. Do you feel the same regarding his attacks on women? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marley-here-we-go-again/658321/109 "2013-05-15T05:49:35Z")
That being said, while I do think that modding the “boo hiss” comment was a bit of an overreaction since the phrase “boo hiss” strikes me more as a joke than a serious attack, similar to someone typing “grrrr” in response to an argument, claiming that it has a “chilling effect” strikes me as equally silly. Also, while I can understand why some conservatives think the mods are out to get them, I think if you step back and look at the big picture that’s hardly true. For starters, Marley has never struck me as being all that lefty, particularly by the standards of the board. Left-of-center sure, but he’s never struck as being SDMB’s answer to Michael Moore. Beyond that, while I can see how a lot of people feel that many like Der Trihs gets away with a vast amount of crap that others never would, this board also gives relatively free rein to a lot of right-wing posters to regularly threadshit(Starving Artist and all the scientific racists come to mind). Hell, if one wants to be conspiracy minded, I’m sure some left-wingers would argue that the continued survival of Der Trihs is proof of right-wing bias(keeping him around to make lefties look bad) and right-wingers could make the same case regarding the continued survival of Starving Artist. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marley-here-we-go-again/658321/110 "2013-05-15T08:49:14Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Have you noticed how you’re the Mod that is the target of these threads more than any other? To me it’s a sign that he’s doing a good job. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marley-here-we-go-again/658321/111 "2013-05-15T08:56:07Z")
**Der Trihs** \*used to be \*modded a lot more than he is nowadays, but he’s also toned down quite a bit from those times, I find. I think the use of mod notes has helped a lot of the slightly borderline posters (such as myself) from going Full Jerk, and I appreciate the use of them to steer away from potential thread implosions. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marley-here-we-go-again/658321/112 "2013-05-15T10:05:48Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > You and I have dramatically different opinions on what would be considered “substantive”. > > How is claiming that “the typical American woman thinks all men are rapists and monsters” and also arguing that all men should secretly videotape their sexual encounters because women are so prone to falsely accuse them of rape “substantive arguments” and how are they not “being a jerk”? > > Would you feel it a substantive argument to insist that all black men be under constant surveillance to ensure they’re not committing crimes or that “the typical Jew can’t be trusted because they’re famous for their greed”? > > Would you insist that such claims aren’t thread shitting and somehow aren’t “being a jerk”? > > If so, please explain. They might be jerkish actions and/or opinions, but he’s never actually used them against posters. Every one of **Oakminster** ’s comments was against a specific poster. Also, he goes to great length to explain where he is coming from, which **Oakminster** deliberately seemed to avoid. Maybe **Oakminster** was just offering his opinions, but the lack of any substance in his posts gave room for doubt. He came off more like he was spoiling for a fight. Heck, if I were **Marley** , I’d have said he was getting close to trolling rather than threadshitting. And that’s what substantive means. It’s referring to something being backed by argument, not your definition that seems to be closer to that of “rational,” a position a reasonable person could have. His posts are still substantial even if they are based on false premises, because at least they have premises. **Der Trihs** ’s opinions are offensive, sure, but that’s not what **Oakminster** was modded for. The rest of your post is not really relevant. I’d suggest opening another thread if you want to debate whether **Der Trihs** ’s posts are equivalent to your racist version. While I see where you are coming from, I definitely see flaws–the discussion of which would likely hijack this thread. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marley-here-we-go-again/658321/113 "2013-05-15T10:20:25Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > To me it’s a sign that he’s doing a good job. Sorry, but that’s stupid. I won’t go so far as to say it makes him a bad moderator, but I will say that the conflict is often more due to his approach. He has an “act first explain later” type of moderation. As the poster never thinks they’ve done something wrong, this often leads to them already being angry before they hear the explanation. And when you are angry, your instinct is to try to win or beat your opponent, rather than to come to an understanding. And, since the poster is already combative at this point, Marley himself also often responds combatively, which, of course, does nothing to calm the situation. There are moderators who do a much, much better job of handling this, and are often thought of as being better at their job because of this. **Ellen Cherry** is often cited, for example. In fact, she’s even won an offboard poll for best moderator, with people citing that as their reason. (Offboard because I don’t think we’d allow that sort of thing here.) Now, don’t get me wrong. I know some of the difference has to do with what forums **Marley** tends to moderate. And I know that even **Ellen Cherry** gets some threads like this, and more of them than less active moderators. And some of it does come with the job. But there’s no way that **Marley** ’s relatively high number of times being subject of an ATMB thread is because he’s better at his job than other mods. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marley-here-we-go-again/658321/114 "2013-05-15T10:41:23Z")
And we’ve heard the caged bird sing. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marley-here-we-go-again/658321/115 "2013-05-15T11:03:27Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > In fact, she’s even won an offboard poll for best moderator, with people citing that as their reason. (Offboard because I don’t think we’d allow that sort of thing here.) Did she get a cash prize with that? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marley-here-we-go-again/658321/116 "2013-05-15T12:20:47Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > As soon as the thing you made up becomes a rule. (Never.) 😉 He didn’t make anything up. > [@](#): > > As I always explain when this gets asked, **Der Trihs** and many other people of any and all political persuasions have been modded for off-topic or otherwise unwanted posts. I’m sorry, but this is ridiculous. When those posters, or several others, post something which is either snarky crap or outright hate, they _don’t_ get modded for threadshitting. You said - > [@Marley23](#): > > I’m allowed to tell posters that if they’re going to make the effort to post in a thread in the first place, they should post something constructive or on-topic instead of just heckling other people. So you think the claim that conservatives want to sacrifice their own children to being murdered by guns is “constructive or on-topic”? > [@](#): > > **Der Trihs** has often been accused of making ludicrous generalizations, but he typically doesn’t respond to people’s ideas by literally saying “Boo hiss.” So it’s that exact phrase that is offensive? And if **Oakminster** had simply responded “All liberals want to kill babies”, it would have been fine? That just is not true. Look, you did what **tomndebb** does sometimes - you got a report from someone you don’t like and went looking for something to use to send the message “don’t report any more posts”. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marley-here-we-go-again/658321/117 "2013-05-15T13:47:07Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > **Der Trihs** \*used to be \*modded a lot more than he is nowadays, but he’s also toned down quite a bit from those times, I find. I can’t claim to remember how often he was mod’ed in the past, but I do note that he gets mod’ed quite often in recent times. The only question I have, for **Marley** and/or **Tom** , is why he always gets just a mod note even though it’s the nth time he’s _done the exact same thing_. Seems like once you’ve been mod’ed 3 or 4 times for “doing x”, you should get an official waring the next time you “do x”. As for the OP, seems like it’s making a mountain out of mole hill. It was just a mod note and nothing else. BFD. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marley-here-we-go-again/658321/118 "2013-05-15T14:05:41Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > But when your moderation is the provocation itself, you’re _not_ helping. You actually derail the discussions more than what you feel you must moderate might result in. No discussion was derailed. **Oakminster** doesn’t like the mod note I gave him, but he also stopped doing the stuff I told him to stop doing. The mod note wasn’t a provocation. > [@Shodan](#): > > When those posters, or several others, post something which is either snarky crap or outright hate, they _don’t_ get modded for threadshitting. They do when it’s actually threadshitting. > [@](#): > > And if **Oakminster** had simply responded “All liberals want to kill babies”, it would have been fine? I can’t see any relationship to the thread topic. > [@](#): > > Look, you did what **tomndebb** does sometimes - you got a report from someone you don’t like and went looking for something to use to send the message “don’t report any more posts”. We’ve never done this, and not just because it wouldn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marley-here-we-go-again/658321/119 "2013-05-15T14:11:18Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Now, don’t get me wrong. I know some of the difference has to do with what forums **Marley** tends to moderate. And I know that even **Ellen Cherry** gets some threads like this, and more of them than less active moderators. And some of it does come with the job. But there’s no way that **Marley** ’s relatively high number of times being subject of an ATMB thread is because he’s better at his job than other mods. Who said _anything_ about better than any other mods? I just judge the response to Marley’s modding by the people doing the complaining - if he receives a higher-than-average number of complaint threads, and they’re all from a certain group, he’s doing a good job. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marley-here-we-go-again/658321/120 "2013-05-15T14:21:02Z")
People, can **Oak** and I just grab a beer together and everybody else drop it? We’re getting too worked up over nothing at all, and there are more important things we could be talking about and dealing with, like whether or not this milk smells funny. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marley-here-we-go-again/658321.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marley-here-we-go-again/658321.md?page=7)