# Marriage advice **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 6, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-advice/591666 "2011-08-06T01:00:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-advice/591666/21 "2011-08-06T20:17:35Z")
Sounds to me like Mr. ribbit25 is in dire need of a large dose of maturity. Lay down the law, including a division of chores and responsibilities. If he’s willing to accept his obligations to you and your child, then look into counseling. If he’s not, then, well… ---
**Author:** ![FrancisCastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b4bc9f/32.png) [@FrancisCastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FrancisCastle)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-advice/591666/22 "2011-08-06T20:26:45Z")
I understand your comment about feeling like you failed. I was married for eight years and stayed much longer than I should have because I felt the same way. Once you take the big step to care more about your happiness than your perceived failure, it’s much easier to look back and see that you made the right decision. Now I’m not saying that you should DTMFA, but maybe counseling is a good step. I think I’m repeating others, but don’t hold back with the counselor…everything you want to talk about, talk about. Also, once you come to an agreement on something, you can NEVER throw that up in each other’s faces again. (As I’m writing this, I’m thinking I’m probably not the best person to give relationship advice. Oh well, here it is anyway.) ---
**Author:** ![ribbit25](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@ribbit25](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ribbit25)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-advice/591666/23 "2011-08-07T02:05:59Z")
Thanks again for everyone else who’s replied. I admit, I am no where close to the perfect wife. I have my issues as well that probably contribute to his behavior, but putting up with him not being a father is too far. I have put up with it this long because I do love him and knows he does love his daughter. I wanted her to have a family. Counseling is in the works and hopefully this helps. He has again blown up and accused me of leaving my daughter with a babysitter the whole time I was gone to go drink and that I was having an affair. He finally had an epiphany apparently and figured out he’s insecure and doesn’t trust me but that he’s not sure why. The reason I went to my parents is that we just moved and I don’t have anyone close by other tba. Them that I can go stay at. They have a crib, toys, etc. For my daughter. Valid point though, running to my parents isn’t the best thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-advice/591666/24 "2011-08-07T02:24:35Z")
**ribbit** , I think you need more help than we can give you here. If you _didn’t_ take your daughter out of an unstable situation, some people would be calling you a bad mother. If your husband won’t go to a counsellor with you, I think you should go on your own to figure out this situation. No, you don’t want to call it quits just because it’s a little hard, but you also don’t want to stay in an abusive situation that is likely to escalate, and a trained therapist could help you and your husband (or at least you) figure out what is the best thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-advice/591666/25 "2011-08-07T02:33:56Z")
It’s great that you can see your own responsibility in this, but nothing coudl justify his behavior. Explaining or understanding his behavior is seperate from deciding what to do about it. Many, many people live with enormously imperfect partners without creating a hostile environment for their children. They discuss calmly and decide logically, and go to great lengths to make everything as painless as possible for the kids. Your husband has not chosen to consider others or the well being of your child before he acts. He is unstable,a nd not in control of his temper. Therefore he is unpredictable and dangerous. Thank God your parents are close by and have a safe loving environment available to you. Where else would go? And why would you stay when he’s clearly not thinking rationally? The made-up jealousy is a super bad, super-dangerous sign. This is not garden-variety hard times between a new couple. This is serious. ---
**Author:** ![Bartman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@Bartman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bartman)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-advice/591666/26 "2011-08-07T16:53:23Z")
> [@ribbit25](#): > > Nothing will erase what happened this week, yes we can forgive and move on, but I can’t get over the fact he went to a lawyer twice and filled out the separation paperwork and tried to take my daughter. Not saying that he acted reasonably or responsibly. I’m also not saying you should stay with him. But I think it might be worth taking this out and examining it. You are understandably upset that he “tried to take your daughter.” But you should view this from his perspective. You _ **did** _ take \*\*\*his \*\*\*daughter, and you refused him access to her. If someone (even my wife (well ex-wife now)) took my kids and refused me access to them. You can bet I would have not only threatened to take them back, I would filed parental kidnapping charges and the divorce paperwork. He might be evil and all that, but his actions to try and regain access to his daughter are not unreasonable (if a bit immature). What would you do if he had disappeared for a week with her and refused to let you see her? Until the courts rule otherwise she is his daughter just as much as your daughter. And if you really think he is a danger to her than you need to file a restraining order. Running away and refusing to let him see her was a bit immature on your part and obviously exacerbated the issue… and could be held against you in court if you do divorce. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-advice/591666/27 "2011-08-07T20:46:35Z")
> [@Bartman](#): > > . . . You can bet I would have not only threatened to take them back, I would filed parental kidnapping charges and. . . I seriously doubt there are _ANY_ grounds for a kidnapping charge here. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-advice/591666/28 "2011-08-08T17:50:36Z")
> [@PandaBear77](#): > > He sounds depressed,\* maybe\* with some kind of personality disorder. Depression will turn people into complete assholes sometimes. The personality flaws aren’t going to go away but depression can be fixed. That doesn’t excuse his actions at all – but all married couples are going to say things to each other they shouldn’t, and do things to hurt the other person (emotionally, I mean). > . > . > . > You sound very, very young. And I am SO not hating on you for that - I married at 21 and had a baby at 22 and a pretty rocky marriage for a few years - why? Because we both needed to grow up. And we did, and things are pretty cool now. We would have given up a pretty good life if we’d thrown in the towel after things got rough - and we definitely considered it. I agree with PB…there might be some underlying cause to your husband’s behavior and whether or not you want to separate or divorce, you should at least explore with a therapist about his behaviors (he would see a different therapist individually) to see if there is a disorder of some type that may be exasperating the situation. As long as you feel safe, continue counseling for the sake of the family (even if you are separated and living with your parents), and go in with the attitude that you are going to do your full share of making the relationship more stable. It may save your marriage or it may not, but at least you can look back on this with no regrets and no “what ifs”. Bailing first (divorce) and falling into another relationship (without counseling) will not improve your situation at all and make things worse for the child. As for marrying early…yeah, you are at a disadvantage when it comes to divorce rates, but I believe most young married couples are still too immature to deal with issues and choose to bail early rather than seek help. I got married 9 days after turning 23, and our first child was born when I was 24. I still wanted to hang out at bars and drink with my friends rather than stay home with my wife and child. It didn’t make me a monster, but it did make me an inconsiderate jerk. But as years went by, I made my long journey from inconsiderate jerk to a seldom inconsiderate jerk over the last 25 years (tomorrow!). There was quite a bit of counseling (and stumbling) along the way which made this all possible. Had I not gone to counseling, I’m pretty sure I would be more immature than I am now, and divorced (probably more than once) and not too much wiser. So, by experience, I am definitely in the “counseling is not a tree” camp. Hoping things work out for you and your family…and do encourage and support your husband in finding out the cause for his rash behaviors. Like PB, it sounds like there is an issue there that needs to addressed regardless of your outcome. If anything, support him through it even if your separation becomes permanent. ---
**Author:** ![Foxy40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Foxy40](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foxy40)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-advice/591666/29 "2011-08-08T19:25:26Z")
> [@ribbit25](#): > > You all are amazing, thank you!!! It help so much to hear from people who aren’t biased to one side or another. Please keep in mind that this advice you’re being given is indeed biased as we have heard only your side of the story. I am sure he has a side as well and unless you get him to post what HE thinks, your advice is extremely biased. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-advice/591666/30 "2011-08-09T02:21:33Z")
> [@ribbit25](#): > > I am in need of a neutral third party perspective on my marriage. We have been together 3 years, married 3 months, and have a one year old. We’ve had a pretty rocky relationship but things got better around the wedding. Since then, its gone downhill fast. This past week we got into a huge fight. Im still not sure what set it off but when I woke up Monday morning he was walking out the front door with packed bags. He came back a few hrs later and confessed to searching thru my phone and finding me looking up marriage advice. He blew up, became irrational and started threating to take the money, get a vasectomy, etc. All crazy things. U left with my daughter to get her out of that environment and went to my parents house so we could both cool down. He kept the irrational behavior up all week so I stayed until Friday. By Thursday he had been to a lawyer twice to file for separation bc he claimed I was keeping him from our daughter. He told me was going for full custody and was telling me he would use anything he could to get her. He then took out half our money and sent me a pic of the lawyer filling out the papers ( weird). I came back Friday night so he could see her and now he wants to forget the separation and move on. > > Here’s some more background. He said me and my sister (we are grown adults) are sluts, is the breadwinner but hasn’t brought home a paycheck in months, plays games instead of playing with his daughter, won’t pick up after himself (not household chores), hasn’t helped with raising our daughter since she was a newborn (I also worked full time for 5 months). I do all financial and household chores, raise the kid alone, and he isn’t even responsible enough to take care if his failing health. We have a platonic relationship, rarely are intimate(he says its miserable), and he won’t do anything together as a couple or family. > > I’m at my wits end. I’m not happy and after this week, I don’t look at him the same. I don’t know if I can forgive him for trying to take my daughter away from me. My family doesn’t trust him and doesn’t really like him anymore either. I feel bad breaking up a family since we have a child but I’m not happy at all. Any advice would be appreciated. If you need any more info let me know!! Thanks Hate to say it but this sounds like a typical one-side of a relationship. Not judging you, I’m a 1 time divorcee too, but I’d be willing to bet that he could come on here and write an equally detailed summary of your behavior and make you look as bad as you make him sound. The only reason I say this is that it’s hard to give relationship advice when you only have one side to go on. That said it sounds like you’re heading towards your first divorce. Learn what you can from this marriage and your next one will be better. That’s how it was for me. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-advice/591666/31 "2011-08-09T02:59:30Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > That said it sounds like you’re heading towards your first divorce. Learn what you can from this marriage and your next one will be better. That’s how it was for me. Or stay out of the marriage business altogether. That is a choice that I have made after one failed one and others have too but but sometimes I think not enough of us. Marriage (thankfully) isn’t the default position anymore for all adults. It should be more of a calling like the priesthood rather than something everyone is expected to do. I know I am not cut out for marriage because it seems like a form of slavery to me no matter how much I like the person. Most people don’t see it that way but I am still not firmly convinced I have ever seen a good marriage in my entire life even among those that have lasted and fought it out (or at least as advertised to the public; some couples get benefits from their own arrangement even if it is the opposite of fairytale material). I am sure there are a small percentage of good ones out there but you never know until you know everything about it and the vast majority of the ones I have known close up are some form of dysfunction or horror show. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-advice/591666/32 "2011-08-09T08:54:59Z")
What got me most about your story is that when he found out you were looking for marriage advice he acted like he caught you cheating on him. This doesn’t sound to me like a guy who would go to a counselor with you to try to make things work. Not only did he check out of the marriage a long time ago, he seems to have checked out of adulthood. Your husband reminds me of a case I read about in the book [The Sociopath Next Door](http://www.amazon.com/Sociopath-Next-Door-Martha-Stout/dp/0767915828/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1312879619&sr=1-1). If you use the “Look Inside” feature and look at page 5 you will see a brief description of this type of person. There is a more detailed description deeper in the book that matches your husband pretty well. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-advice/591666/33 "2011-08-09T09:26:32Z")
[Here’s another book I found truly helpful](http://http://www.amazon.com/Good-Leave-Stay-Step---Step/dp/0452275350/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1312881762&sr=1-1). If counseling doesn’t work out, it might help you to clear your head, and your husband might want to read it too. The book diagnoses what exactly is the problem, and it detangles the "Problems-problems-problems-But I LOVE him/her - tangle. The book also gives evidence-based information on what kind of marriage problems are salvageble, opposed to what situations generally will leave people better off if they leave the marriage. One of the twenty diagnostic questions is: “ **if a higher power gave you permission to leave the marriage, would you feel relieved**?” If a spouse answers “_yes_” to that question, it is likely the main reason the marriage still exists is feelings of pity, plight and duty. Or feeling like a failure if the marriage doesn’t work out. It seems to me like your question to this messageboard was, effectively, that question. And the answer in the book is that in such cases, most people who left are happier then if they stayed. Yes, you may be abandoning you husband in a time of need. He does sound depressed and insecure. But the fact that you _want_ to leave, and that you are somewhat ready to blame him, speaks volumes. On your part at least, there is not enough love, and no, duty can’t replace love. You might feel differently if you and your husband were both older and more mature and more able to communicate, but all of that is not the case right now and it won’t be for a couple more years. If the thought of hanging in a couple more years scares you off, just get that divorce and make it as friendly and painless as possible. ---
**Author:** ![mac\_bolan00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@mac\_bolan00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mac_bolan00)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-advice/591666/34 "2011-08-09T09:52:05Z")
i see very little out of the ordinary in the OP. no offense to the pack-up-and-leave crowd but advice is supposed to be focused on saving a marriage. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-advice/591666/35 "2011-08-09T14:35:14Z")
> [@mac\_bolan00](#): > > i see very little out of the ordinary in the OP. no offense to the pack-up-and-leave crowd but **advice is supposed to be focused on saving a marriage**. Spurious claim bolded. Her primary responsibility is to provide a safe consistent and loving environment fro her child. Not to “Stay Married” if her partner is toxic. ---
**Author:** ![Myrnalene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@Myrnalene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myrnalene)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-advice/591666/36 "2011-08-09T17:50:07Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > Hate to say it but this sounds like a typical one-side of a relationship. Not judging you, I’m a 1 time divorcee too, but I’d be willing to bet that he could come on here and write an equally detailed summary of your behavior and make you look as bad as you make him sound. The only reason I say this is that it’s hard to give relationship advice when you only have one side to go on. I’m not sure why people have felt the need to say this over and over and over again in this thread. There’s no particular reason to disbelieve the OP and women in toxic or abusive relationships are often accused of making shit up. You can choose to give her advice sympathy or not, but I don’t get the point of hinting to a woman in what sounds like a bad situation that you think she’s lying. Especially when multiple posters have done it already. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-advice/591666/37 "2011-08-09T17:59:54Z")
> [@Myrnalene](#): > > I’m not sure why people have felt the need to say this over and over and over again in this thread. There’s no particular reason to disbelieve the OP and women in toxic or abusive relationships are often accused of making shit up. You can choose to give her advice sympathy or not, but I don’t get the point of hinting to a woman in what sounds like a bad situation that you think she’s lying. Especially when multiple posters have done it already. Saying there are two sides to a story, is not the same as saying a poster is lying or making shit up. It just means that her perceptions, while valid, may not be the entire objective reality. As an example I had an aquaintence in a sports hobby that got divorced. if I had only known her side, I would think that he was the laziest piece of shit to ever father children. However, I also had my own objective observations, that she treated him like a chauffer/nanny while speaking to him dismissively and ordering him about all the time. I would not want to be treated that way. Did he do less around the house than he should have, as reported by friend? I have no reason to doubt it. Did that fully describe the problems in the relationship? Not at all. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-advice/591666/38 "2011-08-09T18:02:39Z")
> [@mac\_bolan00](#): > > i see very little out of the ordinary in the OP. no offense to the pack-up-and-leave crowd but advice is supposed to be focused on saving a marriage. The behaviour of the OP’s husband sounds like a textbook emotional abuser. Of course we only have one side of the story, but if we encourage the OP to get some serious help, they should be able to work with her and help her figure this out. ---
**Author:** ![Myrnalene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@Myrnalene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myrnalene)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-advice/591666/39 "2011-08-09T23:02:37Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > Saying there are two sides to a story, is not the same as saying a poster is lying or making shit up. It just means that her perceptions, while valid, may not be the entire objective reality. K that’s nice. And the point of bringing it up in this thread would be what? People don’t usually rush in to disclaim that there are “two sides to every story” when people are posting about work gripes or traffic altercations, but they are pretty quick to do it when talking about domestic issues. The OP’s in a terribly stressful situation and she already feels guilty for wanting to leave. What good does it do her or her kid for her to feel worse, which is the only real outcome I can think of multiple people telling her “oh ps this is probably at least partly your fault, make sure you think good and hard about that.” Is getting fooled on the internet such a dire fate that you guys have to make sure we take note of your skepticism, or what? ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-advice/591666/40 "2011-08-09T23:18:51Z")
> [@Myrnalene](#): > > I’m not sure why people have felt the need to say this over and over and over again in this thread. There’s no particular reason to disbelieve the OP and women in toxic or abusive relationships are often accused of making shit up. You can choose to give her advice sympathy or not, but I don’t get the point of hinting to a woman in what sounds like a bad situation that you think she’s lying. Especially when multiple posters have done it already. Who called her a liar? I’m sure her story is accurate AS SHE SEES THINGS. Using our logic the ONLY response to her original post is “RUN. DIVORCE. NOW!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-advice/591666.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-advice/591666.md?page=3)