# Marriage equality in Arkansas! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 10, 2014, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-equality-in-arkansas/688151 "2014-05-10T21:57:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-equality-in-arkansas/688151/21 "2014-05-12T17:42:08Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I am puzzled how a State judge can decide a State Constitutional Amendment is unconstitutional. Isn’t the whole point of an amendment is to include it in the state’s constitution? > > As I understand it, the court interprets law to see if it conforms to the Constitution. Well, the amendment makes that irrelevant. Gay marriage is banned by the Ark State Constitution. I’m not sure what the heck this state judge thinks he is doing. > > Now, a Federal judge could rule the US Constitution is being violated by this state amendment. That is what will happen when SCOTUS finally issues a decision. A state judge can certainly decide issues of federal import, and this judge did, in fact, find that the state constitutional provision was invalid because it conflicted with the federal constitution. There’s nothing stopping him from reaching that conclusion – it just means that the decision will be reviewable by the US Supreme Court as well as the state court system. State courts are certainly empowered to decide questions of federal law, but ultimately a state court must yield to the federal courts’ determination of federal law. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-equality-in-arkansas/688151/22 "2014-05-12T17:44:47Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I am puzzled how a State judge can decide a State Constitutional Amendment is unconstitutional. Isn’t the whole point of an amendment is to include it in the state’s constitution? Federal \> state constitution. Go back to the US Constitution and read the supremacy clause which states: _This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding._ [Judge Piazza of Arkansas ruled based on the Equal Protection Clause of the US Constitution that the State Constitution violated the US Constitution.](http://media.arkansasonline.com/news/documents/2014/05/09/plaintiff_win.pdf) > [@](#): > > ## The Equal Protection Clause forbids a state from denying “to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws,” U.S. Const. amend. XIV, $ 1, and promotes the ideal that “all persons similarly situated should be treated alike.” Cleburne v. Cleburne Living Center, Inc., 473 U.S. 432, 439 (1985). However, states are empowered to “perform many of the vital functions of modern government,” Nat’l Fed’n of Indep. Bus. v. Sebelius, > > U.S. 132 S.Ct. > 2566, 2578 (2012), which necessarily involves adopting regulations which > distinguish between certain groups within society. See Romer v. Evans,5l7 U.S. > 620, 631 (1996). Therefore, all courts must balance equal protection principles > with the practical purposes of government when reviewing constitutional > challenges to state laws. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-equality-in-arkansas/688151/23 "2014-05-12T17:46:07Z")
Interesting. IANAL so, its helpful getting more informed answers. Thank you for the clarification. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-equality-in-arkansas/688151/24 "2014-05-12T17:47:27Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I am puzzled how a State judge can decide a State Constitutional Amendment is unconstitutional. Isn’t the whole point of an amendment is to include it in the state’s constitution? > > As I understand it, the court interprets law to see if it conforms to the Constitution. Well, the amendment makes that irrelevant. Gay marriage is banned by the Ark State Constitution. I’m not sure what the heck this state judge thinks he is doing. > > Now, a Federal judge could rule the US Constitution is being violated by this state amendment. That is what will happen when SCOTUS finally issues a decision. He ruled that the amendment to the Arkansas state constitution violated the equal protection clause of the U.S. Constitution. States can make their own laws that differ from federal law, but they can’t make laws that violate the U.S. Constitution. [Here’s a link to the ruling.](http://posting.arktimes.com/media/pdf/marriage.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-equality-in-arkansas/688151/25 "2014-05-12T17:54:03Z")
Constitutional ninjas away! ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-equality-in-arkansas/688151/26 "2014-05-15T02:52:08Z")
Court ruling just a few hours ago. > **[Arkansas Supreme Court won't stay same-sex marriage ruling](https://katv.com/archive/arkansas-supreme-court-wont-stay-same-sex-marriage-ruling)** > > LITTLE ROCK (AP) - The Arkansas Supreme Court has rejected the state attorney general's request for a stay of a judge's ruling that overturned Arkansas' constitutional ban on gay marriage.The high court on Wednesday turned down the request from... > [@](#): > > The Arkansas Supreme Court has rejected the state attorney general’s request for a stay of a judge’s ruling that overturned Arkansas’ constitutional ban on gay marriage. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-equality-in-arkansas/688151/27 "2014-05-15T03:12:13Z")
Channel 7 had a legal expert come on live to explain the ruling. The Court refused the stay because the original judge’s order was incomplete. That order didn’t address all the laws that effect same sex marriage. So, it bounces back to the circuit judge for clarification. Same Sex Marriage licenses probably won’t be issued (again) until the circuit judge acts. Then it will probably bounce back to the State Supreme Court. It’s going to take awhile to litigate this. I’ll post a link if channel 7 posts the video of this interview. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-equality-in-arkansas/688151/28 "2014-05-15T03:24:14Z")
I’m torn. Yay for the gays, boo for Arkansas being more progressive than my state. > [@Marley23](#): > > I’m not sure they can wait that long, but I don’t know what the time frame on these sorts of cases looks like. I hope they don’t resort to sex before marriage. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-equality-in-arkansas/688151/29 "2014-05-15T09:18:08Z")
Video analysis of this complex issue. There is a law directly forbidding Circuit Clerks from issuing Same Sex marriage licenses. That’s why most Clerks in Arkansas haven’t done so since the judges order last week. They don’t want to be held responsible for violating this separate law. Eventually, this will all get sorted out. But for now the status of the people that married in the past few days is uncertain. Bolding is mine. > **[Same-sex marriage status still uncertain](https://katv.com/archive/same-sex-marriage-status-still-uncertain)** > > Little Rock - Their will likely be no more marriage licenses issued to same-sex couples in Arkansas until further legal action. The move comes after the Arkansas Supreme Court on Wednesday rejected the state's request to put on hold a ruling that... > [@](#): > > Little Rock – Their will likely be no more marriage licenses issued to same-sex couples in Arkansas until further legal action. > > The move comes after the Arkansas Supreme Court on Wednesday rejected the state’s request to put on hold a ruling that overturned Arkansas’ ban on same-sex marriage. > > Judge Chris Piazza declared act 144 of 1997 and the voter approved amendment 83 unconstitutional, Last Friday. > > **What Judge Chris Piazza did not include in his ruling was an Arkansas code that forbids circuit court clerks from issuing marriages licenses to those of the same sex.** ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-equality-in-arkansas/688151/30 "2014-05-15T18:56:36Z")
[Today Piazza struck down all same-sex marriage bans in Arkansas and denied the state’s motion to suspend his ruling.](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/05/15/same-sex-marriages-halt-in-arkansas-amid-confusion-over-state-supreme-court/) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-equality-in-arkansas/688151/31 "2014-05-17T01:51:36Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > [Today Piazza struck down all same-sex marriage bans in Arkansas and denied the state’s motion to suspend his ruling.](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/05/15/same-sex-marriages-halt-in-arkansas-amid-confusion-over-state-supreme-court/) That was wrong of him. He’s a state circuit judge. He knows the law’s constitutionality must be ultimately decided by a higher court. The [Arkansas Supreme Court has acted:](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/same-sex-marriage-halted-arkansas-again-n107721) > [@](#): > > In the latest on-and-off-again development, Arkansas’ highest court on Friday suspended a judge’s ruling that struck down the ban on same-sex marriage in the state, which stopped the distribution of marriage licenses after hundreds had already been issued to same-sex couples. > > The state Supreme Court granted a request to suspend Pulaski County Circuit Judge Chris Piazza’s decision a week earlier that the state’s ban on same-sex marriage is unconstitutional. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-equality-in-arkansas/688151/32 "2014-05-17T01:57:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That was wrong of him. He’s a state circuit judge. He knows the law’s constitutionality must be ultimately decided by a higher court. Ran out of edit time: Some people on this board, and elsewhere, have speculated that this was part of a conscious strategy – by refusing to stay his ruling, he created a period of time in which marriage licenses were issued. This will make it more difficult to decide that same-sex marriage is illegal: what’s to be done about the couples that were granted licenses? If this was his motivation, it’s an improper one. A judge should not be invested in changing the law. His job as a judge should be to rule on what the law is. I assume that his decision that the prohibition on same-sex marriage is unconstitutional is the result of his honest weighing of the law. But if his refusal to stay his ruling was the result of an effort to lock in his decision, that’s advocacy that goes bwyond what a judge’s role should be. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-equality-in-arkansas/688151/33 "2014-05-17T03:15:28Z")
Any idea what kind of time period there will be before the state Supreme Court is likely to hear and then render a decision? And then how long it will be before it’s taken to the 8th circuit court of appeals? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-equality-in-arkansas/688151.md?page=1)