# "Marriage Friendly" counselors--appealing? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 8, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-friendly-counselors-appealing/591963 "2011-08-08T17:21:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-friendly-counselors-appealing/591963/1 "2011-08-08T17:21:03Z")
Asimovian and I have been talking about doing premarital counseling just to see if that might be a good thing for us. In looking for a counselor, I found one nearby who describes herself as “marriage friendly.” I found this description of what that means: [ > [@](#): > > Because of their professional training, many therapists hold a “neutral” value orientation towards whether a marriage survives or whether the couple divorces. In fact, this is the most common stance even among therapists who identify themselves as marriage and family therapists. In a national survey of over 1,000 marriage and family therapists, over 60 percent indicated that they are “neutral” on marriage versus divorce for their clients. Only one-third said they “I am committed to preserving marriage and avoiding divorce whenever possible.” Disturbingly, 2.4% said they frequently recommend divorce. ]([http://www.marriagefriendlytherapists.com/cfaq\_marriage\_friendly\_means.php](http://www.marriagefriendlytherapists.com/cfaq_marriage_friendly_means.php)) I read that and thought “I want a neutral therapist.” Asimovian had the same reaction. We would want someone who is looking at it objectively because, well, we can’t be objective ourselves, and it doesn’t make sense to try to force it. Would you want a “marriage friendly” therapist or a “neutral” one? ---
**Author:** ![Vihaga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Vihaga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vihaga)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-friendly-counselors-appealing/591963/2 "2011-08-08T17:28:27Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Would you want a “marriage friendly” therapist or a “neutral” one? I’m not sure since I’ve never been to a couple’s counselor. I could definitely see a couple with kids going for a “marriage friendly” counselor if they want to make every effort to stay together. I could also see a couple that wants to work on a couple of smaller issues but isn’t considering a separation opting for a “marriage friendly” therapist, especially if they feel like a neutral one won’t be coming from a perspective that’s compatible with their goals. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-friendly-counselors-appealing/591963/3 "2011-08-08T17:33:41Z")
I’d far rather go to a neutral counselor. I think that a “marriage friendly” counselor has a first priority of trying to keep the marriage together, even if this is not a good outcome for one or both parties in the marriage. And I think that pre marriage counseling is a good idea, wish I’d done it. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-friendly-counselors-appealing/591963/4 "2011-08-08T17:52:02Z")
I would think that the reason that most counselors are neutral, are that they want the individuals to discover what they truly want and help them reach those goals. If the individuals deep down want to save the marriage, then the counselor will help them do that. Therapy isn’t about achieving a prescribed mindset. It’s about finding what it is you are really feeling and finding a healthy way to express it. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-friendly-counselors-appealing/591963/5 "2011-08-08T18:00:03Z")
Weirdly, as GP I spend quite a large amount of my professional life biting my tongue to stop from advising people to end their relationships. Sometimes a relationship is so unhealthy and dysfunctional that it shouldn’t be saved, and sometimes the people in it are so hell-bent on trying to save it that they NEED a neutral party to tell them to walk away. Just my 2c. ---
**Author:** ![raspberry\_hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@raspberry\_hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raspberry_hunter)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-friendly-counselors-appealing/591963/6 "2011-08-08T18:22:42Z")
We had religious premarital counseling (mandated by my husband’s church in which we were married). So they were fairly obviously marriage-friendly; by no stretch could it have been described as marriage-neutral. However, the pastor that was counseling us said that, because he did believe in marriage and that people who were married should stay married, he exerted every influence he could to try to make sure that people who should _not_ be getting married didn’t get married in the first place (so that he didn’t have to counsel them through their divorce). So I think that for _pre_-marital counseling, it shouldn’t make any difference. Anyway… I think premarital counseling is an excellent idea, and I’m glad they made us do it. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-friendly-counselors-appealing/591963/7 "2011-08-08T18:29:00Z")
> [@raspberry\_hunter](#): > > \However, the pastor that was counseling us said that, because he did believe in marriage and that people who were married should stay married, he exerted every influence he could to try to make sure that people who should _not_ be getting married didn’t get married in the first place (so that he didn’t have to counsel them through their divorce).\ I like that idea for a marriage-friendly pre-marital counsellor. I can see why people would want a marriage-neutral counsellor, but I can also see that it is a normal human tendency to see everything as a nail when all you have is a hammer. We see it on the Dope here all the time - any bump in the road, dump that mo-fo’s ass. I don’t think I wouldn’t want a marriage-neutral counsellor; I would want one that takes each marriage as an individual case, and tries to keep couples together unless they are fatally flawed. ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-friendly-counselors-appealing/591963/8 "2011-08-08T18:46:41Z")
Don’t know what to tell you about marriage-friendly vs neutral counselors. Just wanted to recommend [_The Seven Basic Quarrels of Marriage_](http://www.amazon.com/Seven-Basic-Quarrels-Marriage-Recognize/dp/0345418182) by Robie McCauley. My husband and I read and discussed it before our wedding. We decided to have every single argument before getting married to see if there were any “deal breakers”. We believed it would be better to find out before the wedding, call it off and remain good friends rather than find out afterwards, when mortgages and children might seriously complicate things. Also, don’t be surprised if, even after you work out everything prior to the wedding, 6 months to a year after, issues you thought were resolved crop up. For example, although my husband and I had established excellent communication before getting married, some major misunderstandings occurred after the wedding that astounded us because we thought we had great communication. Stuff like this is why people say you have to work on your relationships. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-friendly-counselors-appealing/591963/9 "2011-08-08T19:02:53Z")
My best friend’s marriage counselor was also a divorce attorney. That seemed like a ridiculous conflict of interest to me, but she thought it was hysterical. And yeah, they ended up getting divorced, and the counselor/attorney represented her in the divorce. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-friendly-counselors-appealing/591963/10 "2011-08-08T19:05:31Z")
For the record, Asimovian, we aren’t going to have a premarital divorce attorney counselor, no matter how much you beg! ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-friendly-counselors-appealing/591963/11 "2011-08-08T19:08:10Z")
Save the money for the marriage and just give it straight to the premarital divorce attorney counsellor? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-friendly-counselors-appealing/591963/12 "2011-08-08T19:08:10Z")
And thus, the marriage was set to begin on unsteady ground… ---
**Author:** ![Brynda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Brynda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynda)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-friendly-counselors-appealing/591963/13 "2011-08-08T19:16:37Z")
I usually follow the clients’ wishes, which means if someone wants out or is unwilling to work on making the marriage better, we need to work on making the break up the best it can be. I think trying to save marriages without full commitment on the clients’ parts is a pretty futile goal. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-friendly-counselors-appealing/591963/14 "2011-08-08T19:22:26Z")
IME “Marriage Friendly” was code for “Religious Fundie who will help you get your wife to submit to your authority.” ---
**Author:** ![Vihaga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Vihaga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vihaga)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-friendly-counselors-appealing/591963/15 "2011-08-08T19:33:15Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > IME “Marriage Friendly” was code for “Religious Fundie who will help you get your wife to submit to your authority.” Well, that’s no good, then. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-friendly-counselors-appealing/591963/16 "2011-08-08T19:43:17Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > For the record, Asimovian, we aren’t going to have a premarital divorce attorney counselor, no matter how much you beg! > [@Asimovian](#): > > And thus, the marriage was set to begin on unsteady ground… You guys don’t need to pay anyone for pre-marital counseling…just start airing your dirty laundry here, and we’ll all collectively counsel you. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-friendly-counselors-appealing/591963/17 "2011-08-08T19:44:39Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > You guys don’t need to pay anyone for pre-marital counseling…just start airing your dirty laundry here, and we’ll all collectively counsel you. Nah. I’ve never wanted to be “TMF” in DTMFA. ---
**Author:** ![raspberry\_hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@raspberry\_hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raspberry_hunter)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-friendly-counselors-appealing/591963/18 "2011-08-08T19:46:23Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > IME “Marriage Friendly” was code for “Religious Fundie who will help you get your wife to submit to your authority.” Ouch. I’m sorry – that sounds terrible. The way my husband’s church works, the pastor was required to get some sort of external credentials for doing the counseling. I forget exactly what they were at this date, but I remember that they were similar to what my sister found for a secular counselor. And we took some sort of multiple-choice test from that external source – one of the areas was “men and women’s roles in marriage,” but the idea was that we needed to have similar views on that (or talk through them if we didn’t), not that he would try to talk us into anything. (And we did – that was one of the areas that we had the most agreement on; both of us believe very strongly that men and women should be equal partners in a marriage.) ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-friendly-counselors-appealing/591963/19 "2011-08-08T19:47:56Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > Nah. I’ve never wanted to be “TMF” in DTMFA. Yeah, I know what you mean…been there done that. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-friendly-counselors-appealing/591963/20 "2011-08-08T20:09:57Z")
> [@raspberry\_hunter](#): > > Ouch. I’m sorry – that sounds terrible. > > The way my husband’s church works, the pastor was required to get some sort of external credentials for doing the counseling. I forget exactly what they were at this date, but I remember that they were similar to what my sister found for a secular counselor. And we took some sort of multiple-choice test from that external source – one of the areas was “men and women’s roles in marriage,” but the idea was that we needed to have similar views on that (or talk through them if we didn’t), not that he would try to talk us into anything. (And we did – that was one of the areas that we had the most agreement on; both of us believe very strongly that men and women should be equal partners in a marriage.) We only talked to her once. She was seriously thrown by the fact that we were pregnant and hadn’t set the date. This was an emergency in her eyes, and she really kept stressing the danger that the baby could be born before we had “made the sacred commitment.” Fortunately, her pressing the urgency of marriage overbalanced his enthusiasm for her other beliefs about the dangers of a woman holding her own views over those of the male. So we found someone else. Who also was not terribly helpful, but not nearly so offensive either. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-friendly-counselors-appealing/591963.md?page=2)