# Marriage over... don't divorce yet??? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 29, 2018, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-over-dont-divorce-yet/817009 "2018-06-29T18:42:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-over-dont-divorce-yet/817009/21 "2018-06-30T09:10:11Z")
Marriage is a very special thing, and should be saved for someone you are having sex with. 🙂 Facetiousness aside, I think in 99%+ of cases a person’s spouse needs to be their sex partner. Even if you’re married and by choice not having sex, then your spouse should be the one you’re having not-sex with. 🙂 This is not a moral stance on my part, but merely a sense that doing otherwise tends to have unwanted and unintended consequences. There are people who deny that marriage is primarily about sex, providing interesting counterexamples and so on. I believe those counterexamples are either extreme outliers or just plain messed up. This doesn’t work in reverse - I think “no sex outside marriage” is wrong for a lot of people. But I think being married to not-your-chosen-partner is nearly always a disaster waiting to happen. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-over-dont-divorce-yet/817009/22 "2018-06-30T11:56:10Z")
I delayed divorce and got screwed over for my troubles. I had moved out and taken a second job to afford my own place. My wife and kids got my primary job’s paycheck. My wife wanted to keep things that way until the kids graduated high-school and she said she’d “sign whatever papers” for the divorce. I had my attorney write up a shared custody agreement to cover the time until they reached 18. When it was time to sign the papers she got her own lawyer and went for my jugular. I’d been set-up and our previous verbal agreement meant nothing in court. My advice is to get the divorce, even if you remain amicable and cohabit. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-over-dont-divorce-yet/817009/23 "2018-06-30T12:42:00Z")
I don’t think there is a right decision. I would just ask yourself what decision would make you beat yourself up more 10-15 years from now. Which would you regret more: Would you regret that you made the decision to end the relative calm you have now and potentially disrupting the family life you seem to be okay with, or would you regret that you spent another 10-15 years in this agreement when you could have been out pursuing your own individual interests? Let’s assume that you decide to keep things as they are now. What if your wife decided a year or two from now that she wanted a full-on divorce? Could you live with that? Would you feel like you had wasted 2, 3, 5 years of your life? Would be bitter about it, and would that make a divorce worse in the future? Keep in mind, your children may be at college or adults by that point, but they’re still going to experience emotional shock and they will have their own opinions about this. Delaying divorce won’t prevent that. It’ll only prevent you from seeing it up close. On the flip side, let’s assume you decide to move on with your life. Are you 100% comfortable with your efforts to save the marriage up to this point? If you made the decision to end the marriage now, your children will have an opinion about it and you’ll observe their pain more directly. Would you feel like you needlessly disturbed family life? A few thoughts… I do not advise pursuing an open marriage. I don’t care if there’s an unspoken agreement to see other people - someone’s going to get hurt, or if nothing else, someone’s ego is going to get bruised. That’ll get ugly, and depending on the state, you might be on the hook for civil damages. Just a bad idea that I would avoid doing at all costs. If you wanna see other people badly, get a divorce. Also, I agree with what others have said. As you get older, passion is less of a thing. That’s not to say it’s not important, but that’s not the foundation of a relationship. That said, it does depend on the individuals involved. If one person wants and needs more of a physical relationship where the other couldn’t care less, that’s difficult to resolve. Maybe a counselor could help there - I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-over-dont-divorce-yet/817009/24 "2018-06-30T13:30:30Z")
I’m no expert on any matter involving social interaction, but it sounds to me like most of your marriage is thriving. You’re living together peacefully, maintaining a household, and so on, and that’s a very big part of what a marriage is. OK, maybe your sex life sucks. You can’t have everything. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-over-dont-divorce-yet/817009/25 "2018-06-30T13:35:42Z")
I got married later than most of my friends, had a child 2 years later, and was divorced within 5 years. I didn’t want a divorce, but my wife felt we had become roommates. Within a few weeks of my moving out she was dating her boss. It didn’t last, but that didn’t matter, the damage was done. It was a rough time for me, but within 6 months I had hired a lawyer and started the divorce process. It was very amicable (she didn’t want to hire her own lawyer so my lawyer handled both parties). We split everything 50/50 and worked out a custody/visitation agreement I could live with. A year later I was officially single and remained single for 15 years. I dated some, but mostly enjoyed my new-found freedom. I could what I want,when I wanted, with whomever I wanted. After my daughter graduated high school and started college I started dating seriously and was ready to settle down. I went to a personal counselor and he helped me work through some of the bad feelings about my first marriage. I met my second wife and remarried. I guess the moral of the story is that everybody, and every situation is different. My advice would be to meet with an impartial professional who can talk to you about your situation and help you determine what is best for you. Your kids are old enough to handle whatever you decide to do. Don’t feel like you don’t have a few different options. You do. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-over-dont-divorce-yet/817009/26 "2018-06-30T13:48:18Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > I got married later than most of my friends, had a child 2 years later, and was divorced within 5 years. I didn’t want a divorce, but my wife felt we had become roommates. Within a few weeks of my moving out she was dating her boss. It didn’t last, but that didn’t matter, the damage was done. It was a rough time for me, but within 6 months I had hired a lawyer and started the divorce process. It was very amicable (she didn’t want to hire her own lawyer so my lawyer handled both parties). We split everything 50/50 and worked out a custody/visitation agreement I could live with. > > A year later I was officially single and remained single for 15 years. I dated some, but mostly enjoyed my new-found freedom. I could what I want,when I wanted, with whomever I wanted. After my daughter graduated high school and started college I started dating seriously and was ready to settle down. I went to a personal counselor and he helped me work through some of the bad feelings about my first marriage. I met my second wife and remarried. I guess the moral of the story is that everybody, and every situation is different. My advice would be to meet with an impartial professional who can talk to you about your situation and help you determine what is best for you. Your kids are old enough to handle whatever you decide to do. Don’t feel like you don’t have a few different options. You do. I should also mention that after the divorce I traveled around the world, both for business and pleasure, sometimes taking my daughter with me. That would never have happened if I had stayed married since my wife had no desire to see the world. Sometimes you just realize you married the wrong person. It’s great that you get along with the your wife so well now, but think about what you could be missing out on. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-over-dont-divorce-yet/817009/27 "2018-06-30T14:02:29Z")
I could see continuing to cohabit at least until the youngest goes to college, simply because it’s not that long and if you wait till then to establish new households, you have a lot more flexibility. The other issue is college costs: two households is more expensive than one. But I’d take the kids–especially the youngest–to family counseling right away to make sure everyone has the same expectations. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-over-dont-divorce-yet/817009/28 "2018-06-30T15:00:12Z")
No sex is a pretty big deal because it means you’re also missing out on the physical and emotional intimacy that go along with it. That’s one big difference between your situation and one where the passion has merely gone out of the marriage. Take it from someone who was unwillingly and unhappily in the no-intimacy situation for a lot of years.Your youngest has three more years at home. Are you OK with three more years without intimacy? The answer is not an open marriage. How open could it be without your youngest knowing? And what kind of example of marriage do you want to set for your kids? OTOH, there’s no getting around it: divorce is hard on kids, even amicable divorces. If you or your wife decide to leave, you’ll need to put a lot of time and care into making it as painless for your youngest as possible. Side note: if you stay, your wife should have a room of her own, not one she’s borrowing from your son. ---
**Author:** ![jaycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat/32/3015_2.png) [@jaycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaycat)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-over-dont-divorce-yet/817009/29 "2018-06-30T17:55:55Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > . . . I don’t see a driver to get divorced. . . . Correct. You would see a lawyer for that. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-over-dont-divorce-yet/817009/30 "2018-06-30T19:14:25Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > When it was time to sign the papers she got her own lawyer and went for my jugular. I’d been set-up and our previous verbal agreement meant nothing in court. I had a similar experience, though mine was on a much smaller scale. When your spouse is not emotionally invested in you, then what you essentially have is a 50/50 business partner who is legally entitled, at a moment’s notice, to take their half and sabotage your half, and they have your signed permission to do so. You need out. Just because you personally bear no ill will today, doesn’t mean she won’t, tomorrow or a year from now. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-over-dont-divorce-yet/817009/31 "2018-06-30T19:18:54Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I could see continuing to cohabit at least until the youngest goes to college, simply because it’s not that long and if you wait till then to establish new households, you have a lot more flexibility. The other issue is college costs: two households is more expensive than one. > > But I’d take the kids–especially the youngest–to family counseling right away to make sure everyone has the same expectations. Everyone does not have the same expectations. Guaranteed. Even if they thought they did. I would strongly advise against family counselling at a moment like this. It stirs up everything, and right now things are not good but at least stable. My opinion: divorce first, then family counselling. Note: I say that because clearly this couple has no thought of reconciling their marriage. If people are considering staying married, that’s different. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-over-dont-divorce-yet/817009/32 "2018-06-30T19:40:39Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > We’ve been trying for 4 years to repair things. It hasn’t worked. In that time we’ve actually grown FURTHER apart, not closer. Lots of reasons for that. We won’t grow closer together. > > I don’t see either of us taking on big financial liabilities anytime soon, at least not on purpose, so I’m not really worried about that aspect of staying married. I do realize that if one of us hits a bus of kids it would wipe out both of us, but that is a risk I’m willing to take right now. > > There is no sex and hasn’t been for a while. I want sex so I can’t see being stuck with that for the rest of my life. > > I have talked to one kid about our situation and explicitly told her the wife and I are just two separate people now. She seemed to better knowing that. I need to talk to the other two. One is away and it will be hard to have that conversation over the phone, but I’ll do it. The other is just 15 and it will be tough to be upfront with her about it, but again, I will. The kids obviously know my wife and I are in separate rooms and don’t interact. Again, have you two discussed seeing other people as a trial balloon while remaining married? I’m not sure if that will solve the problem, or cause new ones though. But it could be something to try until the kids are old enough that they are all grown up and you can get the divorce you are wanting. But I’m certain your wife, just like you, would want to be in a passionate, romantic relationship with sex. You guys just don’t want that with each other right now. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-over-dont-divorce-yet/817009/33 "2018-06-30T19:55:58Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > Just because you personally bear no ill will today, doesn’t mean she won’t, tomorrow or a year from now. You can say that again! > [@DavidwithanR](#): > > Just because you personally bear no ill will today, doesn’t mean she won’t, tomorrow or a year from now. not funny. :mad: Seriously though. If things are good right now _they can only go downhill over time_, IME. Take her out to dinner. Talk about how you want to get a divorce and that your primary concern is that the kids prosper. Tell her you’ve researched area divorce attornies and read reviews, and that you want her to look over your short-list to see who she likes. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-over-dont-divorce-yet/817009/34 "2018-06-30T20:21:29Z")
I agree. If you see no path forward in this marriage, then holding onto it is only going to make things worse. As the child of parents who “stayed together for the kids”, my advice is don’t. Trust me, they’d rather that you were both happy than that you were hanging on until they left so that you could be happy. You are taking risks for no good reason at all. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-over-dont-divorce-yet/817009/35 "2018-06-30T21:11:48Z")
Staying together for kids **can** make sense, when the kids are very young and their world would be shattered by a divorce, as long as staying together isn’t actually worse for them for other reasons. It doesn’t sound to me like that fits here. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-over-dont-divorce-yet/817009/36 "2018-06-30T21:17:54Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > You can say that again! > > not funny. :mad: > > Seriously though. If things are good right now _they can only go downhill over time_, IME. Take her out to dinner. Talk about how you want to get a divorce and that your primary concern is that the kids prosper. Tell her you’ve researched area divorce attornies and read reviews, and that you want her to look over your short-list to see who she likes. And if there ever was a time for “Get it done now while she’s in a good mood”, this is it. Hostile feelings make honest people lie, and make kind people do terrible things. DAMHIKT. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-over-dont-divorce-yet/817009/37 "2018-06-30T21:39:23Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > … > As you get older, passion is less of a thing. That’s not to say it’s not important, but that’s not the foundation of a relationship. I would argue that it is the foundation. Not that everyone has to be sexually active at all times, but that the feelings for each other and commitment to each other are the ongoing basis. The reason I say this is that marriage allows people to assume immense legal power over each other. People who love each other don’t seize that power, but people who no longer love each other do so all too often. IMO a marriage without love and affection is simply a stupid business risk. If you don’t think so, consider how many single entrepreneurs want to enter into marriages of convenience just in order to gain a business partner. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-over-dont-divorce-yet/817009/38 "2018-07-01T05:41:21Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Again, have you two discussed seeing other people as a trial balloon while remaining married? > > I’m not sure if that will solve the problem, or cause new ones though. But it could be something to try until the kids are old enough that they are all grown up and you can get the divorce you are wanting. > > But I’m certain your wife, just like you, would want to be in a passionate, romantic relationship with sex. You guys just don’t want that with each other right now. yeah… my wife does not want to be in a passionate, romantic relationship. I can guarantee that. She just wants someone to validate and emotionally support her. She really has no physical drive at all. She has said she has no sexual fantasies at all, ever, and thinks I’m just a sex crazed guy when I suggest that sexual fantasies are the norm, not the exception. Even for women. My sex life doesn’t just suck, it doesn’t exist. My wife has said I’m free to date other people. I would, except right now that would be awkward. Maybe in another 6 moths to a year. Maybe more. We’ll see. We just recently openly acknowledged to each other we will never really be together. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-over-dont-divorce-yet/817009/39 "2018-07-01T10:40:26Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > yeah… my wife does not want to be in a passionate, romantic relationship. I can guarantee that. She just wants someone to validate and emotionally support her. She really has no physical drive at all. She has said she has no sexual fantasies at all, ever, and thinks I’m just a sex crazed guy when I suggest that sexual fantasies are the norm, not the exception. Even for women. > > My sex life doesn’t just suck, it doesn’t exist. > > My wife has said I’m free to date other people. I would, except right now that would be awkward. Maybe in another 6 moths to a year. Maybe more. We’ll see. We just recently openly acknowledged to each other we will never really be together. If she has decided against a romantic relationship with you, then what’s in this for her? I say if there’s no pleasure then it must be business. How is the marriage a good business deal for her? Is it a good business deal for you? ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-over-dont-divorce-yet/817009/40 "2018-07-01T10:45:38Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > yeah… my wife does not want to be in a passionate, romantic relationship. I can guarantee that. She just wants someone to validate and emotionally support her. She really has no physical drive at all. She has said she has no sexual fantasies at all, ever, and thinks I’m just a sex crazed guy when I suggest that sexual fantasies are the norm, not the exception. Even for women. > > My sex life doesn’t just suck, it doesn’t exist. > > My wife has said I’m free to date other people. I would, except right now that would be awkward. Maybe in another 6 moths to a year. Maybe more. We’ll see. We just recently openly acknowledged to each other we will never really be together. If she has decided against a romantic relationship with you, then what’s in this for her? Why is she sticking around? I say if there’s no pleasure then it must be business. How is the marriage a good business deal for her? Is it a good business deal for you, considering how much power you signed over to your business partner? My ex was simply preparing her plan to grab as much money as possible and get out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-over-dont-divorce-yet/817009.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marriage-over-dont-divorce-yet/817009.md?page=3)