# Married/single in languages other than English **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 9, 2009, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/married-single-in-languages-other-than-english/499173 "2009-06-09T01:46:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Notassmartasithought](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c0e974/32.png) [@Notassmartasithought](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Notassmartasithought)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/married-single-in-languages-other-than-english/499173/61 "2009-06-11T02:18:36Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > As if it were spelled “Miz” [mIz]. Actually, that’s exactly the same pronunciation that is used informally for “Mrs.” throughout much of the United States. I grew up in the Midwest and we addressed “Mrs. Hayes” as “Miz Hayes” long before “Ms.” became an issue for us. > > I have noted that there are some people who prefer “Mrs.,” but I’ve never seen anyone who actually is offended by “Ms.” And I’ve never met anyone who uses “Miss.” I’m from the Midwest, too, and we never confused “misses” and “mizz” in Minnesotan. I’ve never run across a woman offended by “Ms.,” but I’ve had return correspondence where the woman thoughtfully included “Mrs.” in the name line beneath her signature. I took that as a signal that I should use that in my next letter, email, or phone call. I’m a man, so beyond that I dare not tread, **Costanze** I am by the way, an American professional, and fully agree with **Jodi** about “Dear Jane Smith.” Not accepted in these parts. ---
**Author:** ![BetsQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/fbc32d/32.png) [@BetsQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BetsQ)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/married-single-in-languages-other-than-english/499173/62 "2009-06-11T02:59:58Z")
> [@Notassmartasithought](#): > > I’m from the Midwest, too, and we never confused “misses” and “mizz” in Minnesotan. Ditto for Missourian. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/married-single-in-languages-other-than-english/499173/63 "2009-06-11T09:01:34Z")
> [@BetsQ](#): > > I don’t think this is common in English. I can’t imagine calling someone “Teacher Smith” or “Cashier Jones” or “Chief Financial Officer Jackson”. That would seem really odd. > > This is a fascinating discussion! I’d like to throw in another question - what do you do in other languages when you don’t know if the person you are addressing is male or female? Is there a good solution in English, for that matter? (FTR, I’m thinking of written communication here. What sort of salutation would you use in a letter to, say, Jordan Johnson?) Come to South Asia, people use that all the time. In Pakistan we use _sahib_ or _sahiba_. These are used after the name, so **AK84 Sahib**. However, the _sahib_ or _sahiba_ is often prefixed with the persons profession or position, so _Dr-Sahib_, _manager-sahiba_. When people use english, they usually follow UK conventions. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/married-single-in-languages-other-than-english/499173/64 "2009-06-11T11:48:38Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#): > > Example: I’m a Dr., and also a Miss (or Ms., I don’t care). If you know my job title is “Dr.”, address me that way, not by my marital status (or lack of it). Depends on the circumstances and the social level, in fashion not dissimilar to using Du/Sie or tu/usted. If your doctorate is as a medical professional and I were visiting your office, then the “doctor” address is appropriate. If you’re only a Ph.D. in mathematics, and we’re not at University or colleagues, then it’s not going to happen. > [@](#): > > In Spanish, and at least in Puerto Rico, professions such as engineers, lawyers, architects, all have their titles (like Dr.). If you know that the woman you’re dealing with has one of those titles, use them instead of her status, as it is offensive to do otherwise. That may be specific to Puerto Rico or other Latin-American countries, but in Mexico, it’s very context-specific, as above. Only my wife’s former patients and students would ever have called her “doctora” in Mexico in any circumstances, and friends and colleagues only used that address in the office. Sometimes their children will address her as “doctora,” but that’s not as a honorarium but only as a title, just like in English: “Good morning, doctor, how are you?” > [@](#): > > More examples: My mom gets offended when some neighbors (out of spite) address her as _doña_ (alt + 0241) instead of _licensiada (lcda.)_, the title for a lawyer. Like Nava said, it is used in this case with an opposite meaning. They’re ignoring mom’s title (and education) deliberately. Maybe, but it’s context-driven (again, I’m unsure of Puerto Rico, where I have no experience). I wouldn’t call one of my neighbors by a title, and I would be offended if I couldn’t just call them by their first names. > [@](#): > > My cousin is an architect, and in PR they carry a title (_arquitecta/o, Arq._). She has, on occasion, written letters to the editor in newspapers, using her job title instead of her marital status. It is the proper thing to do. That’s a professional context again. It’s a very proper thing to do. But your cousin (or you) wouldn’t come to the SDMB in a non-professional context and sign everything with your title. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/married-single-in-languages-other-than-english/499173/65 "2009-06-11T12:32:51Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > That may be specific to Puerto Rico or other Latin-American countries, but in Mexico, it’s very context-specific, as above. Only my wife’s former patients and students would ever have called her “doctora” in Mexico in any circumstances, and friends and colleagues only used that address in the office. Sometimes their children will address her as “doctora,” but that’s not as a honorarium but only as a title, just like in English: “Good morning, doctor, how are you?” > Maybe, but it’s context-driven (again, I’m unsure of Puerto Rico, where I have no experience). I wouldn’t call one of my neighbors by a title, and I would be offended if I couldn’t just call them by their first names. No, it is not offense, and it is context driven, you’re right. But I’ve been answering this thread, especially the questions in the OP, as to how you address someone you do not know well. A stranger, someone in the street, someone with whom you had little familiarity or had just met. Or how you would address someone in a business letter or something like that. A professional/business setting. In the case of my neighbors, they’re not close friends with my mom. Friends (and neighbors who are friends) get the first name treatment, of course. People she just knows (and barely tolerate each other), don’t. And in some cases, her job title IS appropriate (they’re talking to her about laws, for example). > [@](#): > > That’s a professional context again. It’s a very proper thing to do. But your cousin (or you) wouldn’t come to the SDMB in a non-professional context and sign everything with your title. But the way I interpreted the OP, and some of his subsequent replies, is how you address someone in a _serious or professional/business context._ With people you barely know (and hence, may not know the marriage status)… Not in an informal, friendly, laid-back way, but in a more serious setting. Which is also why I don’t get called either Ms, Miss, or ma’am everyday, I’m not in any situation that would warrant it. I don’t use my job title outside of work. If I’m with friends, \*they’re \*the ones who use my title to introduce me to someone else (I just say “Hi, I’m KG!”). But I’d rather they do that, if they’re going to use a title, than say, “This is srta. KG”. And I already addressed the title earlier. Recap: If I know she has a title, and I’m going to put something in front of her name (letter, formal introduction), I’d go with the title and skip Sra/srta altogether. If I have to call someone (whom I do not know status or job title), it would depend on how the person looked (if I see them) and if I can tell if they have a wedding band. And out of respect for elders and hosts, I use don/doña (which also ignores marital status). And if I have to err, I’ll err on using srta rather than sra. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/married-single-in-languages-other-than-english/499173/66 "2009-06-11T12:38:17Z")
> [@Notassmartasithought](#): > > I’m from the Midwest, too, and we never confused “misses” and “mizz” in Minnesotan. Well, the Midwest is a big place. > [@](#): > > I am by the way, an American professional, and fully agree with **Jodi** about “Dear Jane Smith.” Not accepted in these parts. Wait around a while. The trend to me seems pretty clear. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/married-single-in-languages-other-than-english/499173.md?page=3)