# Marrying a set of twins. Legal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 7, 2007, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marrying-a-set-of-twins-legal/407069 "2007-06-07T00:49:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marrying-a-set-of-twins-legal/407069/21 "2007-06-07T04:06:50Z")
[QUOTE=mangeorge] Of course they are! 😕 And I meant simultaneous marriages, not weddings. [/QUOTE] Are you sure you’re not drunk? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marrying-a-set-of-twins-legal/407069/22 "2007-06-07T04:23:39Z")
[QUOTE=Sunspace] Who said anything about a harem? I meant a marriage of equals. [/QUOTE] Still, one’s enough of a handful. ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marrying-a-set-of-twins-legal/407069/23 "2007-06-07T10:25:36Z")
Now, what would be the benefit of marrying both of them if you’re claiming you can’t tell them apart and they are willing to be “reluctant to cooperate with authorities on the subject” so to say. You can marry one. You don’t even need to know which one you’re actually marrying. Live with both. You can still claim spousal rights to one of them at a time – is there a case you’re thinking where it would be beneficial to have spousal rights to both? Consider such a hypothetical case of twins Stacy and Susan and a guy named Steve. Steve legally marries Stacy. Steve lives with both. Whichever needs to be Steve’s wife for some legal reason can be “Stacy” for that period of time. They file two tax returns, one for Steve and Stacy and one for Susan. As long as we’re not dealing with things like separate medical histories, court testimony or an accident that puts both Stacy and Susan in the hospital at the same time, it’s functionally identical to your scenario. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marrying-a-set-of-twins-legal/407069/24 "2007-06-07T12:50:34Z")
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] Are you sure you’re not drunk? 😃 [/QUOTE] Yeah. No. A marraige is the relationship between persons. A wedding is the ceremony that formalizes that relationship. I don’t drink alchohol. Don’t like the payback. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marrying-a-set-of-twins-legal/407069/25 "2007-06-07T13:03:19Z")
[QUOTE=groman] Now, what would be the benefit of marrying both of them if you’re claiming you can’t tell them apart and they are willing to be “reluctant to cooperate with authorities on the subject” so to say. You can marry one. You don’t even need to know which one you’re actually marrying. Live with both. You can still claim spousal rights to one of them at a time – is there a case you’re thinking where it would be beneficial to have spousal rights to both? Consider such a hypothetical case of twins Stacy and Susan and a guy named Steve. Steve legally marries Stacy. Steve lives with both. Whichever needs to be Steve’s wife for some legal reason can be “Stacy” for that period of time. They file two tax returns, one for Steve and Stacy and one for Susan. As long as we’re not dealing with things like separate medical histories, court testimony or an accident that puts both Stacy and Susan in the hospital at the same time, it’s functionally identical to your scenario. [/QUOTE] My original question, in my mind, was how could the law prove whose wedding was the binding one, the first one. Anyway, it’s Steve’s, Stacy’s, and Susan’s problem now. Let’s say he marries Stacy in October, then Susan in December. How would any outside party be able to prove which is Stacy, barring inside cooperation? I see that it doesn’t matter. The second ceremony is the crime, not the relationship. No victim needed, huh. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marrying-a-set-of-twins-legal/407069/26 "2007-06-07T13:08:55Z")
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] By creating a marriage you put yourself under the effect of a zillion laws. Cohabitation doesn’t do that. So no legal consequences because the law isn’t involved. [/QUOTE] The law gets involved in cohabitation when it creates a [common law marriage](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common-law_marriage), still recognized in many states of the US and other countries. A polygamist (PDF file) in Utah was prosecuted for polygamy because his wives were considered common law marriages, despite intervening divorces. > [@](#): > > Though the prosecutors made some arguments as to the actual validity of this scheme of marriages and divorces, the legal foundation upon which the prosecution ultimately sought to close Green’s putative legal loophole rested on a use of Utah’s little-used common-law marriage statute. Like most such statutes, Utah’s common-law marriage statute allows for the solemnization as marriages of relationships that have not passed through the typical marriage process under the laws of the state.The prosecutors realized that, based on the unique, ongoing, and ultimately marriage-like relationships that Tom Green continued to enjoy with each of his wives, it would therefore be possible to establish that a state of legal marriage had continued to exist under the terms of the common-law marriage statute—Nevada divorce decrees notwithstanding. If such a marriage could be established and solemnized with one of the wives, it would then be possible to obtain a conviction for bigamy based on Tom Green’s relationships with the other four wives. In this manner, the fact that Green and his wives had obtained legal divorces would ultimately prove irrelevant—as long as the state could establish that first common-law marriage. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marrying-a-set-of-twins-legal/407069/27 "2007-06-07T14:21:20Z")
I had always thought that cohabitation was only formalized as common law marriage when the people in the relationship sought to do so. Isn’t that the reasoning behind those successful “palimony” lawsuits? ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marrying-a-set-of-twins-legal/407069/28 "2007-06-07T14:26:55Z")
If they were conjoined, I think you’d be ok. ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marrying-a-set-of-twins-legal/407069/29 "2007-06-07T15:00:59Z")
Wee Bairn-- no. They’re still individual humans, believe it or not. I know, hard to imagine. (identical twin here vaguely annoyed by this whole line of questioning. You people do realize that for twins the whole freakshow wacky ooh, clones!1!! psychic!! threesome!! business causes some resentment towards you singlebirth mofos after a while.) There, I feel better. Legal? No. Easy to prosecute? Perhaps slightly less so than usual. But the whole premise, that twinsiness makes this a special case versus any other two individuals, irks. ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marrying-a-set-of-twins-legal/407069/30 "2007-06-07T15:51:00Z")
The case of [Raymon and Richard Miller](http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/LegalCenter/story?id=3195632&page=1) is perhaps of interest here. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marrying-a-set-of-twins-legal/407069/31 "2007-06-07T16:18:31Z")
[QUOTE=mangeorge] I had always thought that cohabitation was only formalized as common law marriage when the people in the relationship sought to do so. [/QUOTE] Not in Colorado at least. I have a friend who is trying to boot her deadbeat boyfried with whom she’s cohabitated for a number of years. He hasn’t worked in … ever. But he left-hooked her with a legitemate dovorce (founded in a common law marriage) and has a good chance at half her stuff. All she ever did was let him stay with her instead of on the street and put his name on a phone bill, but that’s pretty much all it takes. All of their acquaintences knew they weren’t married. The conjoined twins is an interesting twist for the OP, We got us [another thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8655449#post8655449) 'bout that. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marrying-a-set-of-twins-legal/407069/32 "2007-06-07T16:26:26Z")
[QUOTE=Inigo Montoya] Not in Colorado at least. I have a friend who is trying to boot her deadbeat boyfried with whom she’s cohabitated for a number of years. He hasn’t worked in … ever. But he left-hooked her with a legitemate dovorce (founded in a common law marriage) and has a good chance at half her stuff. All she ever did was let him stay with her instead of on the street and put his name on a phone bill, but that’s pretty much all it takes. All of their acquaintences knew they weren’t married. [/QUOTE] Something odd about that. > **[Colorado Common Law Marriage](https://www.colorado-family-law.com/marriage/colorado-common-law-marriage)** > > What is a Common Law Marriage? > [@](#): > > The standard Colorado courts have outlined is that a common law marriage in Colorado requires that the couple: > > 1. Cohabitate, > > 2. Mutually agree to be married, and > > 3. Openly hold themselves out to the public as married. If he got a legitimate divorce, then the facts are more than what you say or a court wouldn’t have granted one. There is no state in which common law marriage is recognized which does not require the couple to represent themselves as married, to my knowledge. And I defy anyone to show how three adults cohabiting would be construed as a marriage in any state. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marrying-a-set-of-twins-legal/407069/33 "2007-06-07T16:48:28Z")
[QUOTE=capybara] Wee Bairn-- no. They’re still individual humans, believe it or not. I know, hard to imagine. (identical twin here vaguely annoyed by this whole line of questioning. You people do realize that for twins the whole freakshow wacky ooh, clones!1!! psychic!! threesome!! business causes some resentment towards you singlebirth mofos after a while.) There, I feel better. Legal? No. Easy to prosecute? Perhaps slightly less so than usual. But the whole premise, that twinsiness makes this a special case versus any other two individuals, irks. [/QUOTE] Sheesh, capy, I looked but didn’t find anything like what you mention. Nothing at all!. :dubious: Sorry if you feel singled (hehe) out. The question is about legality, nor genetics, after all. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marrying-a-set-of-twins-legal/407069/34 "2007-06-07T19:09:21Z")
Ok, let’s take the OP and dissect it logically. If the OP is asserting that there would be a proof problem, because the prosecution could never provide “Wife#2” and prove that’s who she was, then the OP makes the fundamental mistake of assuming that the prosecution would prove bigamy by presenting the second wife. All it would take would be the introduction into evidence of two marriage certificates, both continuing in force, each naming the husband. The wives never need even enter the courtroom. Proof problem solved. If the OP is asserting that bigamy would be hard to prove because neither wife would complain of being doubly married, then the OP makes the mistake of assuming the state cares about whether the wives are happy or not. It is not a crime that requires a “complainant” in that sense. The existence of two mutually exclusive legal relationships is all that is needed for conviction. So it doesn’t matter if you could ever identify Mary Sue from Maggie Jo. Mind you, of course, it is perfectly possible to identify the two, if put to it. Dental records, medical records, fingerprints (to the extent they truly are legitimate methods of identification), etc. all will be different for the twins. If you think that the prosecutor is stymied when presented with the need to identify one twin from another, you are naive. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marrying-a-set-of-twins-legal/407069/35 "2007-06-07T23:20:28Z")
I did acknowledge, way up there somewhere, that my question had been answered. All the rest of this has been pretty much discussion, which if it continues should take it out of this forum. It has been interesting. Naive is a little strong. I am (was) ignorant of ways to identify the twins. Of course, I didn’t assume that they were worldly and sophisticated enough to _have_ medical and dental records, etc. The fingerprint thing though I will buy. I could have easily researched that one. Shoulda woulda coulda, eh. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marrying-a-set-of-twins-legal/407069/36 "2007-06-08T02:01:00Z")
[QUOTE=mangeorge] Still a problem. Who’s SSN is who’s? Prove it. [/QUOTE] What’s to prove? Presumably they were issued 2 separate birth certificates, and later 2 separate SSN’s. They were “proven” to be 2 entirely different people years ago. You can’t marry the same SSN twice, so no possibility of re-use. So if there are 2 different SSN’s, and your SSN is married to both of them, then your SSN is guilty of bigamy. I guess if you dig up some undocumented cult members from the hills of Idaho then it might make things a bit more interesting, but also a lot more difficult. This is not a difficult question, it’s really no different than if you married 2 totally unrelated people. Most of the people who detect these violations never even see the people involved; it’s all through paperwork. I can only imagine that your thinking must be somehow impaired by the salacious fantasy of someone being married to twins and getting away with it. ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marrying-a-set-of-twins-legal/407069/37 "2007-06-08T02:14:43Z")
[QUOTE=Brain Wreck] I can only imagine that your thinking must be somehow impaired by the salacious fantasy of someone being married to twins and getting away with it. [/QUOTE] Can somebody explain to me the benefit of being married to twins, as opposed to being married to one and cohabitating with both? I can’t wrap my mind around that being a fantasy… ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marrying-a-set-of-twins-legal/407069/38 "2007-06-08T02:20:28Z")
[QUOTE=Brain Wreck] What’s to prove? Presumably they were issued 2 separate birth certificates, and later 2 separate SSN’s. They were “proven” to be 2 entirely different people years ago. You can’t marry the same SSN twice, so no possibility of re-use. So if there are 2 different SSN’s, and your SSN is married to both of them, then your SSN is guilty of bigamy. I guess if you dig up some undocumented cult members from the hills of Idaho then it might make things a bit more interesting, but also a lot more difficult. This is not a difficult question, it’s really no different than if you married 2 totally unrelated people. Most of the people who detect these violations never even see the people involved; it’s all through paperwork. I can only imagine that your thinking must be somehow impaired by the salacious fantasy of someone being married to twins and getting away with it. [/QUOTE] Not once did I say, or infer, that they were the same person. That idea has been dispelled over and over above. What to prove would be if Susan and Stacy were standing in front of you holding their SSN cards (do we still have those). They pass them back and forth, giggling with glee, and dare you to prove which is which. Makes no difference if they’re twins, the cards don’t themselves have any pictures anyway. Those cards do not prove identity. You’d have to compare them to other things, such as fingerprints. Oh yeah, the question, phew, has already been answered and acknowledged. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marrying-a-set-of-twins-legal/407069/39 "2007-06-08T12:29:58Z")
[QUOTE=mangeorge] Not once did I say, or infer, that they were the same person. That idea has been dispelled over and over above. What to prove would be if Susan and Stacy were standing in front of you holding their SSN cards (do we still have those). They pass them back and forth, giggling with glee, and dare you to prove which is which. Makes no difference if they’re twins, the cards don’t themselves have any pictures anyway. Those cards do not prove identity. You’d have to compare them to other things, such as fingerprints. [/QUOTE] Again, none of that matters. All that matters is that there ARE 2 social security numbers, and that you are married to both of them. There is no need to go any further than that unless your defense is “But yerroner, I married 1 girl who has 2 SOCIAL SECURITY CARDS”, in which case the prosecutor can easily produce the rest of the lifetime paper trail linked to those cards. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marrying-a-set-of-twins-legal/407069/40 "2007-06-08T16:34:20Z")
[QUOTE=Sapo] Forget DNA and fingerprints. Think Social Security Number. You can’t marry twice. The guy at the court won’t even know if they girls are similar or different or what. He just checks your SSN and sees that you are already married to someone whose SSN is not the one of the person standing next to you. [/QUOTE] I don’t recall being asked for a Social Security Number when I was married. My wife didn’t even have one yet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marrying-a-set-of-twins-legal/407069.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marrying-a-set-of-twins-legal/407069.md?page=3)