# Marsupials & Rodents
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marsupials-rodents/311237
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [July 6, 2005, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marsupials-rodents/311237 "2005-07-06T02:51:07Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@GillianBoardman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GillianBoardman)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2005, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marsupials-rodents/311237/1 "2005-07-06T02:51:07Z")
I need some help, Animal Experts! I shot my mouth off this morning and stated that an animal couldn’t be a rodent and a marsupial at the same time. Now I’m wondering if I was right. I hate it when this happens. I need to learn to engage brain before mouth.
Also pandas aren’t related to bears and are more closely related to raccoons, right? I mean look at the lesser panda. Come on, tell me I at least know this one!
---
### Author:  [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2005, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marsupials-rodents/311237/2 "2005-07-06T02:57:39Z")
A marsupial cannot ever be a rodent, or vice-versa. Marsupials are a whole 'nother order than rodents.
And the giant panda used to be thought to be more closely related to raccoons than bears, but is currently classified with true bears.
---
### Author:  [@GillianBoardman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GillianBoardman)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2005, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marsupials-rodents/311237/3 "2005-07-06T03:01:17Z")
Thanks **jayjay**! So, the one I thought might be shakey ground was right, and the one I thought I had down pat was wrong. Well, one out of two aint bad.
---
### Author:  [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2005, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marsupials-rodents/311237/4 "2005-07-06T03:03:40Z")
A small (hopefully) elaboration on taxonomy from an amateur (me):
Rodents belong to the Order Rodentia. Marsupials belong to the Order Marsupialia. They are both members of the Class Mammalia (mammals).
Kingdom-Phylum-(Subphylum)-Class-Order-Family-Genus-Species
For instance, a house mouse is (in the above order) Animalia-Chordata-(Vertebrata)-Mammalia-Rodentia-Muridae-Mus-musculus.
A red kangaroo is Animalia-Chordata-(Vertebrata)-Mammalia-Marsupialia-Macropodidae-Macropus-rufus.
They’re identical up to the Order. Which means that a rodent cannot be a marsupial.
---
### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2005, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marsupials-rodents/311237/5 "2005-07-06T03:06:00Z")
> [@GillianBoardman](#):
>
> I need some help, Animal Experts! I shot my mouth off this morning and stated that an animal couldn’t be a rodent and a marsupial at the same time. Now I’m wondering if I was right. I hate it when this happens. I need to learn to engage brain before mouth.
This is true. Rodents belong to the Order Rodentia, and are placental mammals, belonging to the subclass Eutheria. Marsupials used to be classed as the Order Marsupialia, but this is now usually broken up into several separate orders, and belong to a different subclass Metatheria. There are some marsupials which _look_ like rodents of various kinds, but the similarity is purely convergent.
> [@](#):
>
> Also pandas aren’t related to bears and are more closely related to raccoons, right? I mean look at the lesser panda. Come on, tell me I at least know this one!
This is wrong. Recent evidence has pretty well established that Giant Pandas are bears, though rather odd ones. AFAIK, the jury is still out on the Lesser Panda.
---
### Author:  [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2005, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marsupials-rodents/311237/6 "2005-07-06T03:10:47Z")
> [@Colibri](#):
>
> This is true. Rodents belong to the Order Rodentia, and are placental mammals, belonging to the subclass Eutheria. Marsupials used to be classed as the Order Marsupialia, but this is now usually broken up into several separate orders, and belong to a different subclass Metatheria. There are some marsupials which _look_ like rodents of various kinds, but the similarity is purely convergent.
I appear to be behind the times! :smack:
---
### Author:  [@GillianBoardman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GillianBoardman)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2005, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marsupials-rodents/311237/7 "2005-07-06T03:13:23Z")
Thanks, Stoopit Roomate is claiming he saw some animal on Larry King Live last night that was both. I told him not possible. He couldn’t tell me the type of animal, (although he said the body looked like a chinchilla) so I couldn’t google it. I then decided to one up him, and made the panda comment. So maybe I’m the Stoopit Roomate for not keeping my mouth shut. Sigh…I coulda sworn my ZooKey from the Philadelphia Zoo made the box with the recording tell me pandas were not bears. Since it was over 30 years ago, it probably did tell me that. Maybe I need a new ZooKey.
---
### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2005, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marsupials-rodents/311237/8 "2005-07-06T03:19:12Z")
> [@jayjay](#):
>
> I appear to be behind the times! :smack:
Yeah, it was decided that putting all the pouchies in one bag was a bit of placental chauvinism. The marsupials were put into one order purely because they shared a form of reproduction, even though they differed among themselves nearly as much as placentals did. Although placentals also shared a form of reproduction, they were split into more than 20 orders.
Classifications vary, but this is one arrangement:
Superorder Ameridelphia
```
* Order Didelphimorphia (63 species)
o Family Didelphidae: opossums
* Order Paucituberculata (6 species)
o Family Caenolestidae: shrew opossums
```
Superorder Australidelphia
```
* Order Microbiotheria (1 species)
o Family Microbiotheriidae: Monito del Monte
* Order Dasyuromorphia (63 species)
o Family Thylacinidae: Thylacine extinct
o Family Dasyuridae: antechinuses, quolls, dunnarts, Tasmanian Devil, and relatives
o Family Myrmecobiidae: Numbat
* Order Peramelemorphia (21 species)
o Family Peroryctidae rainforest bandicoots
o Family Peramelidae: bandicoots and bilbies
* Order Notoryctemorphia (2 species)
o Family Notoryctidae: marsupial moles
* Order Diprotodontia (117 species)
o Family Phascolarctidae: Koala
o Family Vombatidae: wombats
o Family Phalangeridae: brushtail possums and cuscuses
o Family Burramyidae: pygmy possums
o Family Tarsipedidae: Honey Possum
o Family Petauridae: Striped Possum, Leadbeater's Possum, Yellow-bellied Glider, Sugar Glider, Mahogany Glider, Squirrel Glider
o Family Pseudocheiridae: ringtailed possums and relatives
o Family Potoridae: potoroos, rat kangaroos, bettongs
o Family Acrobatidae: Feathertail Glider
o Family Hypsiprymnodontidae: Musky Rat Kangaroo
o Family Macropodidae: kangaroos, wallabies, and relatives
```
> **[Marsupial](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsupialia)**
>
> Marsupials are any members of the mammalian infraclass Marsupialia. All extant marsupials are endemic to Australasia and the Americas. A distinctive characteristic common to most of these species is that the young are carried in a pouch. Well-known marsupials include opossums, Tasmanian devils, kangaroos, koalas, wombats, wallabies, bandicoots, and the extinct thylacine.
> Marsupials represent the clade originating from the last common ancestor of extant metatherians. Like other mammals in the ...
---
### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2005, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marsupials-rodents/311237/9 "2005-07-06T03:21:53Z")
> [@GillianBoardman](#):
>
> Thanks, Stoopit Roomate is claiming he saw some animal on Larry King Live last night that was both. I told him not possible. He couldn’t tell me the type of animal, (although he said the body looked like a chinchilla) so I couldn’t google it.
Like I said, there are some kinds of marsupials that _look_ like rodents, but aren’t. And there are lots of rodents that have pouches, but the pouches are in their cheeks for holding food. He probably misunderstood what was being said.
---
### Author:  [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2005, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marsupials-rodents/311237/10 "2005-07-06T03:23:14Z")
As previously stated, there are a number of marsupials convergent with placentals, however. And while it is not a rodent, the marsupial version of the “mouse,” is indeed called the “marsupial mouse.”
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### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2005, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marsupials-rodents/311237/11 "2005-07-06T03:25:18Z")
> [@Earl Snake-Hips Tucker](#):
>
> As previously stated, there are a number of marsupials convergent with placentals, however. And while it is not a rodent, the marsupial version of the “mouse,” is indeed called the “marsupial mouse.”
They act a lot more shrews, though, being highly carnivorous/insectivorous.
---
### Author:  [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2005, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marsupials-rodents/311237/12 "2005-07-06T03:30:38Z")
Here’s a [transcript](http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/04/lkl.01.html) of last night’s Larry King Live. Jack Hanna was the guest, and there were a LOT of animals…I’m guessing your roommate got his wires crossed on the [viscacha](http://www.americazoo.com/goto/index/mammals/215.htm) and the opossum.
---
### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2005, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marsupials-rodents/311237/13 "2005-07-06T03:57:49Z")
> [@jayjay](#):
>
> Here’s a [transcript](http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/04/lkl.01.html) of last night’s Larry King Live. Jack Hanna was the guest, and there were a LOT of animals…I’m guessing your roommate got his wires crossed on the [viscacha](http://www.americazoo.com/goto/index/mammals/215.htm) and the opossum.
My God, no wonder he got confused. What did they have, like 20 animals on the show?
---
### Author:  [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2005, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marsupials-rodents/311237/14 "2005-07-06T03:59:22Z")
> [@Colibri](#):
>
> They act a lot more shrews, though, being highly carnivorous/insectivorous.
Well, that, and speaking in shrill iambic pentameter. 🆒
---
### Author:  [@GillianBoardman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GillianBoardman)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2005, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marsupials-rodents/311237/15 "2005-07-06T04:08:50Z")
Thanks again! I’m thinking you’re right. That viscacha has sort of a flat face, and he did mention that. I’m going to have to drag him in here later to see the lovely list of latin names since he didn’t believe my verbal report. Or maybe not…I wasn’t very nice and there isn’t any money riding on this. It’s just good to know that I was right about the rodent/marsupial thing. I thought they were different classifications but I wasn’t sure on what level.
---
### Author:  [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2005, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marsupials-rodents/311237/16 "2005-07-06T04:14:16Z")
I think I found the point where the roommate got confused. They’re talking about a viscacha here:
> [@](#):
>
> HANNA: No, we never had one of these on before at all. These are from South America, I think, up in the – way in the high altitudes. **Look at this. He’s almost got a head like a – if you’ve seen a wombat in Australia – but that’s obviously not what it is.**
>
> But a viscatcha (ph). It’s hunted for their coats, like a chinchilla is. You know, people make gloves and hats out of them. They eat these as food.
Okay. I’ve gone through the transcript and noted down the animals they showed.
bear cub
binturong
raccoon
kinkajou
capuchin monkey
squirrel monkey
lemur
bushbaby
arctic fox
fennec fox
giant African bullfrog
poison dart frog
African porcupine
prairie dog
Patagonian cavy
viscacha
capybara
chinchilla
ocelot
anaconda
toucan
hairy armadillo
Siberian lynx
opossum
red kangaroo
Bennett wallaby
kookaburra
millipede
hedgehog
scorpion
They had THIRTY animals on the show last night. I’m not surprised in the least he was confused. With commercials, that means each one, if the times were balanced, got a very little less than a minute each.
---
### Author:  [@GillianBoardman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GillianBoardman)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2005, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marsupials-rodents/311237/17 "2005-07-06T04:22:20Z")
> [@jayjay](#):
>
> I think I found the point where the roommate got confused. They’re talking about a viscacha here:
>
> Okay. I’ve gone through the transcript and noted down the animals they showed.
>
> bear cub
> binturong
> raccoon
> kinkajou
> capuchin monkey
> squirrel monkey
> lemur
> bushbaby
> arctic fox
> fennec fox
> giant African bullfrog
> poison dart frog
> African porcupine
> prairie dog
> Patagonian cavy
> viscacha
> capybara
> chinchilla
> ocelot
> anaconda
> toucan
> hairy armadillo
> Siberian lynx
> opossum
> red kangaroo
> Bennett wallaby
> kookaburra
> millipede
> hedgehog
> scorpion
>
> They had THIRTY animals on the show last night. I’m not surprised in the least he was confused. With commercials, that means each one, if the times were balanced, got a very little less than a minute each.
OK, so I have to give him a break on this one. That is a lot of animals, pretty late at night, after a long day of cooking for tourists that come off of cruise ships. So I won’t say “neener neener neener” or anything like that. But I’ll still think it. He’s one of those guys who thinks he knows everything, but is actually usually wrong. I need to introduce him to Snopes and the Dope!
---
### Author:  [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2005, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marsupials-rodents/311237/18 "2005-07-06T04:57:33Z")
> [@Colibri](#):
>
> They act a lot more shrews, though, being highly carnivorous/insectivorous.
Or like Grasshopper Mice :).
- Tamerlane
---
### Author:  [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2005, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marsupials-rodents/311237/19 "2005-07-06T07:57:52Z")
> [@Colibri](#):
>
> There are some marsupials which _look_ like rodents of various kinds, but the similarity is purely convergent.
Is it not inconcievable that some of the similarity is preserved legacy from the common ancestor of marsupials and placentals, which might well have been a ‘ratty’ sort of thing?
---
### Author:  [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2005, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marsupials-rodents/311237/20 "2005-07-06T17:06:36Z")
> [@Mangetout](#):
>
> Is it not inconcievable that some of the similarity is preserved legacy from the common ancestor of marsupials and placentals, which might well have been a ‘ratty’ sort of thing?
Unlikely, since both the “marsupial rodents” and rodents themselves are derived members of their respective clades. That is, the earliest members of Eutheria may have _looked_ “ratty”, but rats themselves are fairly derived eutherians. The ratty appearance of our forebears had more to do with them being small, furry tetrapods (and they all look the same to me) than with rats being primitive members of Eutheria. Similar to how all early reptiles looked “lizardy”, but true lacertilian lizards are derived, not primitive, reptiles.
The trait of being “small and furry” seems to have played a larger role in determining the form of rodents and rodent-like marsupials than did common ancestry.
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