# martial arts belt recoginazation question....is there a standard? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 24, 2018, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-belt-recoginazation-question-is-there-a-standard/811102 "2018-03-24T01:50:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2018, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-belt-recoginazation-question-is-there-a-standard/811102/1 "2018-03-24T01:50:12Z")
Ok my nephew is taking a city sponsored “intro” karate class and dad says if he likes it hell sign him up for a serious academy/studio … Now he just received a yellow belt today …When he joins a academy will the next place have to recognize the yellow belt ? ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2018, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-belt-recoginazation-question-is-there-a-standard/811102/2 "2018-03-24T01:58:39Z")
most places are into making as much cash as possible so they may make people retest (for a fee) to stay at the same level. ---
**Author:** ![zombywoof](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/9e8a1a/32.png) [@zombywoof](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zombywoof)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2018, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-belt-recoginazation-question-is-there-a-standard/811102/3 "2018-03-24T02:00:16Z")
Will they “have to”? Of course not…they might if they’re both members of the same parent organization, but the endless progression of belts is mostly a motivational/money making thing. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2018, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-belt-recoginazation-question-is-there-a-standard/811102/4 "2018-03-24T02:58:19Z")
Belts are a marketing invention, and not a martial-arts thing at all. There is no standard. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2018, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-belt-recoginazation-question-is-there-a-standard/811102/5 "2018-03-24T03:39:26Z")
In my limited experience, it’ll all depend on if the new school is a member of the same organization as the person who ran the class through the city. If nothing else, your nephew’s father might want to ask that instructor where he teaches, or if he can recommend a school, so that your nephew can continue from where that initial class started him (and, hopefully, recognize the yellow belt). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2018, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-belt-recoginazation-question-is-there-a-standard/811102/6 "2018-03-24T03:42:24Z")
Back when I was taking karate, the instructors told us that any reputable institution would recognize a brown or black belt from any other reputable institution, but that anything below that had no consistency from one school to another. And of course, with non-reputable institutions (of which there are plenty), all bets are off. Of course, they might have been peddling a line, or honestly mistaken, but it speaks to their credibility that they didn’t try to claim that their blue or green or whatever belts meant anything. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2018, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-belt-recoginazation-question-is-there-a-standard/811102/7 "2018-03-24T03:50:52Z")
Yeah, traditionally there are gekusei and sensei, or xeusheng and sifu (“master” and “apprentice”), with no graduations between. The creation of colored belts designsting levels is purely a Western innovation. Unless individul dojos are part of an association they do not recognize levels from other schools. The schools make their money with class and test fees, so that is how they operate (versus the traditional support of students being essentially unpaid labor) but don’t expect achievement levels to be transferable. The nephew should enjoy the school for the training and challenge it provides, not the facile graduations in belt color. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2018, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-belt-recoginazation-question-is-there-a-standard/811102/8 "2018-03-24T04:03:04Z")
Remember that there are many schools of karate. [Shotokan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotokan). [Kempo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenp%C5%8D). [Strip mall](https://www.bullshido.net/). There are also lineages within those styles, based upon who taught whom (and too often, who got pissed off at whom). In certain marital arts dojos, leaving for another school can get you defrocked; others tolerate that; still others encourage it. Train to become stronger, fitter, or build confidence. Don’t worry too much about the belt - it’s a piece of cloth. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2018, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-belt-recoginazation-question-is-there-a-standard/811102/9 "2018-03-24T04:42:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Mike Terry: You want the officer to walk you home? Huh? It’s rough out there. > > Snowflake: Well after he gets his black belt he can walk me to the car. That’ll make me feel secure. > > Mike Terry: How’s the belt going to make you feel secure? > > Snowflake: I know his fucking pants aren’t going to fall down. > … > Mike Terry: The belt is just symbolic. The belt, as Snowflake says, is to just keep your pants up. > [RIGHT]_Redbelt_[/RIGHT] CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2018, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-belt-recoginazation-question-is-there-a-standard/811102/10 "2018-03-24T13:47:50Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > Ok my nephew is taking a city sponsored “intro” karate class and dad says if he likes it hell sign him up for a serious academy/studio … > > Now he just received a yellow belt today …When he joins a academy will the next place have to recognize the yellow belt ? If it is a school in the same style, more than likely, they will honor the rank. In my school, I evaluate incoming students with prior training and give them the choice of wearing a belt in our style that is the closest in training level to their old style, or starting over as a white belt. Either way, they will learn our curriculum from White Belt on up. Most have chosen to start over, and they shoot through the lower ranks because they already know the techniques, they just have to learn the forms and one-steps. When they reach the rank that corresponded with their old rank, they will naturally slow down and proceed as if they had trained with us from day one. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2018, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-belt-recoginazation-question-is-there-a-standard/811102/11 "2018-03-24T16:44:35Z")
I assume you’re in the US? Just because the US doesn’t require accredition by a national Organisation, doesn’t mean it’s all made up. There is a World Karate Federation [World Karate Federation - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Karate_Federation) recognized by the IOC - so oriented more towards the sports aspect. They have an US branch [https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Karate](https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Karate) If you are looking more for the traditional aspect - that Karate is part of Budo, meaning an art with a philosophy towards life itself integrated - you might look towards the [International Traditional Karate Federation - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Traditional_Karate_Federation) (with a national US Organisation [Members U of the ITKF](http://www.itkf.org/members_u.php). These national bodies then recognize the Schools (Dojos) which follow their rules and apply. Between recognized Schools, belts follow therefore the same test, and are recognized. ---
**Author:** ![yearofglad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b782af/32.png) [@yearofglad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yearofglad)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2018, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-belt-recoginazation-question-is-there-a-standard/811102/12 "2018-03-24T17:42:48Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And of course, with non-reputable institutions (of which there are plenty), all bets are off. Presumably you meant all belts are off. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-belt-recoginazation-question-is-there-a-standard/811102/13 "2018-03-25T16:31:07Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > most places are into making as much cash as possible so they may make people retest (for a fee) to stay at the same level. No matter the subject, any school that does that is bad. I’d recommend looking for an accredited school. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-belt-recoginazation-question-is-there-a-standard/811102/14 "2018-03-25T16:34:51Z")
> [@zombywoof](#): > > Will they “have to”? Of course not…they might if they’re both members of the same parent organization, but the endless progression of belts is mostly a motivational/money making thing. Only in bad schools. In accredited schools, belts are given after neutral senseis - sent from the organization, not from the school itself - do an exam, that’s proscribed by the accredition organisation, to demonstrate certain skills, and (higher) knowledge of the background. Because the testers come in from outside, and because a minimum time is expected to actually learn the new skills for the next level, there are certain wait times before you can test for a new level. If a high-ranking belt is sparring with a low-ranked, the higher-ranked is expected to adjust their strenght accordingly, which might be difficult if both are beginners. If a brown-belt and a white-belt are paired for training, the brown-belt can give the beginner tips on how to improve his technique. And so on. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-belt-recoginazation-question-is-there-a-standard/811102/15 "2018-03-25T16:37:42Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > Belts are a marketing invention, and not a martial-arts thing at all. There is no standard. That is not correct. While in the middle ages - several centuries ago- there was only white belt (student) and black belt (master), with the improvement and invention of new martial arts in the last century, graded (colour) belts for better teaching and competition were introduced. In the specific case of Karate, they were copied from Judo. The standard is in the international recognized accrediting organisation. Since clubs/ schools are in the US not required to be accredited, those schools don’t need standards. Doesn’t mean this is universal. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-belt-recoginazation-question-is-there-a-standard/811102/16 "2018-03-25T16:40:13Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > In certain marital arts dojos, leaving for another school can get you defrocked; I thought that only happened to Catholic priests? Seriously, if your dojo is against switching to another school, they are a bad school. Any serious = accredited schools know that people can move, for example. Or their local school only has 1st Dan, and once you reach that, you need to switch to another dojo to learn more from a more advanced sensei. Not leaving sounds more like a cult than a good school. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-belt-recoginazation-question-is-there-a-standard/811102/17 "2018-03-26T04:16:54Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > I thought that only happened to Catholic priests? > > Seriously, if your dojo is against switching to another school, they are a bad school. Any serious = accredited schools know that people can move, for example. Or their local school only has 1st Dan, and once you reach that, you need to switch to another dojo to learn more from a more advanced sensei. > Not leaving sounds more like a cult than a good school. My school tends to be on the other side of the spectrum: black belts are encouraged to try other schools, then come back and teach what they’ve learned. My dojo is also if anything more eclectic than average within the style. For an example of what I’m speaking of, consider this clip from a quora thread entitled [Why do some martial arts schools discourage training in other martial arts? Is that a red flag?](https://www.quora.com/Why-do-some-martial-arts-schools-discourage-training-in-other-martial-arts-Is-that-a-red-flag) [INDENT][INDENT][INDENT] Marty Rickard Marty Rickard, 24 of the last 34+ years studying Ryukyu Kempo Karate. Answered Mar 5, 2017 · Author has 403 answers and 428.7k answer views I have recently left an organisation that stipulates that Black Belt members may not cross-train in other arts. Initially, the official reason was that it was to ensure that students (up to 3rd Dan) get a solid grounding in the art we teach. Then, the reason was because senior Black Belts (4th and above) should show their support for the system by committing to it. The first reason is valid - students do need a solid grounding in an art and I don’t consider anything under 2nd Dan Black Belt as grounded. Very few people I have trained with are able to physically switch between arts. If they’re studying Wing Chun - you’ll see it in their Ryukyu Kempo, likewise you’ll see elements of Ryukyu Kempo in their Wing Chun - you can pick any two (or more) arts and apply this reasoning - it’s sound. Once a student has a solid foundation in one art, you can go looking at other arts … So, why did I leave an organisation that stipulates no cross training? Because the stipulation was not restricted to other arts, but to instructors within our own art. We were not allowed to have communications with instructors from other groups who teach the same art. That’s not normal - to declare that no other instructor has the skill to properly impart the information is a sign of insecurity. Why’d it take me 13 years to make a move? Because, for the longest part of the journey, it wasn’t important - I didn’t let it affect me. In the end, I got in trouble for supporting a national organisation (in my home country) that is committed to supporting authentic, legitimate, certified teachers. This group was not “acceptable” to the leadership - I was told to cease and desist. I chose otherwise. The alarm bells were going off. … [/INDENT][/INDENT][/INDENT]