# Martial Arts McDojangs Need a Healthy Dose of Pitting **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 1, 2013, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070 "2013-02-01T21:10:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Fiveroptic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiveroptic/32/8257_2.png) [@Fiveroptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveroptic)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/121 "2013-02-04T04:48:53Z")
Nope. It was pretty funny. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/122 "2013-02-04T05:55:30Z")
> [@Beastly\_Rotter](#): > > The training montage. “I trained one hour a day and few hours on weekends (a lot of it was just hanging our). I could possibly see three classes a week plus a weekend open session but two 45 minute classes a week sounds kind of light.” This is the only thing I said about training in response to the notion that the poster had found a “real” dojang because they train him for 45 minutes twice a week. Is that a montage? Or were you offended by my description of the black belt test? > [@Ravenman](#): > > Since **Damuri Ajashi** decided to reply to every post in the thread so far, I will repeat that there [doesn’t seem](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taekwondo_at_the_1988_Summer_Olympics) to have been a team sparring competition at the 1988 Olympics, only one British competitor made it to the quarterfinals, and the [page](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Britain_at_the_1988_Summer_Olympics) on UK’s 1988 Olypmics mentions nothing about it. Same situation with the 1992 Olympics, and 2000, and 2004. > > I’m shocked that bullshit could sneak its way in to a thread on martial arts. I’m going to go practice my hadouken now; it’s currently so powerful I can kill someone by even trying to teach them the secret technique, and I must better control my chi. > > [/exits after throwing smokebomb] Yeah, I thought it was bullshit too. I was late to the party and I was responding the the vasta mounts of misinformation in this thread. A lot of it unecessarily derisive of martial arts generally and Tae Kwon Do in particular. I haven’t practiced martial arts in decades so I’m not a badass or anything but I think there is real value to martial arts training well above any beyond any self defense, but a lot of that benefit is the physical confidence that comes from real training (and sparring). That physical confidence clears away a lot of psychological underbrush that I think can be useful in other areas of your life. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/123 "2013-02-04T06:25:18Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > :smack: > > My head just hit the desk. Are you seriously questioning a 6th degree black belt, TKD school instructor, and soon to be Master. Who the heck do you think you are? Your lack of humility and humbleness is disheartening. Now that I know you are 15, I understand the snotty attitude, but I sure as hell don’t have to accept it. You aren’t learning anything about respecting your elders from your training, that is for sure. > > Someone needs to pit you for your snotty, know it all attitude. It won’t be me, because I am already over it, but you are a being a serious snot, and you will suffer the social consequences accordingly. And, thus, I think this thread answers his question in this [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=679772). 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/124 "2013-02-04T11:31:30Z")
You kind of have to love the image of a professional martial arts instructor being lectured on the economics of running a dojo by a kid who’s parents are still paying his lesson fees. ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/125 "2013-02-04T12:02:19Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > :smack: > > My head just hit the desk. Are you seriously questioning a 6th degree black belt, TKD school instructor, and soon to be Master. Who the heck do you think you are? Your lack of humility and humbleness is disheartening. Now that I know you are 15, I understand the snotty attitude, but I sure as hell don’t have to accept it. You aren’t learning anything about respecting your elders from your training, that is for sure. > > Someone needs to pit you for your snotty, know it all attitude. It won’t be me, because I am already over it, but you are a being a serious snot, and you will suffer the social consequences accordingly. Yes I am. Not all 6th degree black belts know what they are blabbering about. They may have trained at a McDojo, which it looks like he did. I will get back to him in 8 to 9 hours. Right now, I don’t have the time to be typing a long reply. ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/126 "2013-02-04T12:08:43Z")
I have no fear in arguing with a 6th Dan black belt. I know nothing. Most of my arguments are based on research and it looks like he went to a McDojo. Go ahead and pit me if you must, because I really don’t care. I am pretty sure I will be pitted at least ten times anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/127 "2013-02-04T12:34:57Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#): > > The purpose of martial arts is to train you to be able to defend yourself against attackers. Basically, if you’re on the street and someone starts attacking you, you’ll be better off if you know martial arts. Reading this one single line alone made it clear to me how little you know about martial arts. There are so many facets of martial arts and what classifies as martial arts – it’s for the most part a lifestyle choice, fitness, sport, competitions … etc and very little of it has to do with actual self-defence. First of all, just because you train Taekwon-do, Karate, Kung-Fu, Muah Thai, Jujitsu, Aikido,Tai-Chi …..etc., does not mean that you train self-defence - you are practising first and for most a sport. Even sparring means that you only operate within a certain set of rules – in a Taekwon-Do competitions you are not allowed to use your elbows, gouge eyes, head butt, kick against the knee, sweep the legs or take it to the floor. … etc. However, this is all part of the self-defence aspect of Taekwon-Do – but not being used in competition, so National, European, Asian & World Champions do NOT really train theses technics, since they are not needed. The problem is; that martial arts are sold as self-defence, but for all intent and purpose – if you need to and must defend yourself: use a handgun. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/128 "2013-02-04T13:39:33Z")
> [@Doughbag](#): > > if you need to and must defend yourself: use a handgun. Please don’t. We don’t need more untrained idiots with guns running around thinking it’s a magic talisman against everything. And I say that as a life-long gun owner and Benefactor Member of the NRA. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/129 "2013-02-04T13:48:26Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Yeah, I thought it was bullshit too. I was late to the party and I was responding the the vasta mounts of misinformation in this thread. A lot of it unecessarily derisive of martial arts generally and Tae Kwon Do in particular. I haven’t practiced martial arts in decades so I’m not a badass or anything but I think there is real value to martial arts training well above any beyond any self defense, but a lot of that benefit is the physical confidence that comes from real training (and sparring). **That physical confidence clears away a lot of psychological underbrush that I think can be useful in other areas of your life.** Very well stated. It never ceases to amaze me how many people come into my school with such low self-esteem. I get kids who we practically have to pry off mom’s legs up to adults who think they will never succeed at pretty much everything. One of the reasons I teach is because I am making a positive difference in their lives. When I see someone set a goal and accomplish it and take pride in doing so, it makes it all worthwhile. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/130 "2013-02-04T13:48:43Z")
Very first words of my very first Karate class were very wise instructions to _RUN AWAY_ when attacked. Didn’t matter how much Karate or anything else you knew, someone could still get in a lucky punch, stab or shoot you. The most effective form of self-defense is to run away. If you can’t run away, abandon any idea of sticking to your forms and techniques and any idea of a fair fight. Go for the groin, the eyes, the throat, any soft parts. Fight hard, fight mean, do as much damage as possible as fast as possible. Accept that you are going to get hurt and don’t let that stop you from continuing the fight AND seeking an exit. Five guys surrounding you? Pick one. Go through him and keep going. Your attack shouldn’t be to try to tackle him or engage in a punching match, leaving the other four to hit you from behind. Your attack should be designed to do damage and knock him out of the way enough so you can get past him and get clear. Then RUN. Run somewhere where there are lots of people and ideally, security cameras. Whether you train in the most deadly martial arts on the planet, carry a gun, or both, NEVER think that you are some invincible badass who can never be harmed. Because you’re not, and NO ONE IS. ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/131 "2013-02-04T14:02:48Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Very first words of my very first Karate class were very wise instructions to _RUN AWAY_ when attacked. Didn’t matter how much Karate or anything else you knew, someone could still get in a lucky punch, stab or shoot you. The most effective form of self-defense is to run away. > > If you can’t run away, abandon any idea of sticking to your forms and techniques and any idea of a fair fight. Go for the groin, the eyes, the throat, any soft parts. Fight hard, fight mean, do as much damage as possible as fast as possible. Accept that you are going to get hurt and don’t let that stop you from continuing the fight AND seeking an exit. > > Five guys surrounding you? Pick one. Go through him and keep going. Your attack shouldn’t be to try to tackle him or engage in a punching match, leaving the other four to hit you from behind. Your attack should be designed to do damage and knock him out of the way enough so you can get past him and get clear. Then RUN. Run somewhere where there are lots of people and ideally, security cameras. > > Whether you train in the most deadly martial arts on the planet, carry a gun, or both, NEVER think that you are some invincible badass who can never be harmed. Because you’re not, and NO ONE IS. This makes sense and that is what my instructor says as well. However, there is no excuse for not teaching practical self-defense, which is McDojos don’t do. I will talk more about this when I write my long reply to that 6th degree black belt in about 8 hours. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/132 "2013-02-04T14:06:47Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > If you can’t run away, abandon any idea of sticking to your forms and techniques and any idea of a fair fight. Go for the groin, the eyes, the throat, any soft parts. Fight hard, fight mean, do as much damage as possible as fast as possible. And that’s why I said earlier in this thread that you can’t really learn fighting in a martial arts class (even one that does full contact sparring, which not all of them do). No dojo in the world is going to have their students practice striking each other full-strength in the throat, gouging eyes, or smashing knees from the side to dislocate them. In a martial arts school, you care about not killing your sparring partner or crippling him for life. In a serious street fight, that’s a luxury you don’t have. You can become physically fit, supple, balanced, and comfortable taking and receiving blows by training in martial arts, so it’s not worthless training by any means (and that’s not even mentioning the numerous psychological benefits). But most martial arts schools are teaching a sport, not effective fighting techniques. But I can’t blame the OP for being a bit confused. The name “martial arts” does imply it’s about fighting - and once it was. Just like swordsmanship and horsemanship were once important military skills. Now they’re primarily sports, because those skills really aren’t very useful for most of us in our day-to-day lives. Martial arts are evolving in the same direction for the same reason. (When was the last time you had to gouge out someone’s eyes or smash his larynx? Most of us can say we’ve never needed those skills.) > [@](#): > > Whether you train in the most deadly martial arts on the planet, carry a gun, or both, NEVER think that you are some invincible badass who can never be harmed. Because you’re not, and NO ONE IS. QFT. Better a yellow belly than a black belt! (Ditto for shooting skills. I never want to learn just how good I’d be in a gunfight, because I never want to BE in a gunfight.) ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/133 "2013-02-04T14:24:28Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#): > > Yes I am. Not all 6th degree black belts know what they are blabbering about. They may have trained at a McDojo, which it looks like he did. > > I will get back to him in 8 to 9 hours. Right now, I don’t have the time to be typing a long reply. Holy shit, you’re an idiot. You know what the most important quality of intelligence is? It’s knowing what you don’t know. When someone with vastly more direct experience with the topic you’re discussing comes along and offers to educate you, an intelligent person gratefully accepts. An idiot defies that person and makes up reasons to cling to what they think they already know instead of being willing to learn. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/134 "2013-02-04T14:44:08Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#): > > Yes I am. Not all 6th degree black belts know what they are blabbering about. They may have trained at a McDojo, which it looks like he did. > > I will get back to him in 8 to 9 hours. Right now, I don’t have the time to be typing a long reply. Hahahaha, I needed the laugh this morning. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/135 "2013-02-04T14:45:50Z")
I almost never agree with **Clothy** on pretty much anything, but I’m really enjoying watching him school the new kid… ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/136 "2013-02-04T14:47:02Z")
Someone needs to start a blog, methinks. ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/137 "2013-02-04T14:50:34Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Holy shit, you’re an idiot. You know what the most important quality of intelligence is? It’s knowing what you don’t know. When someone with vastly more direct experience with the topic you’re discussing comes along and offers to educate you, an intelligent person gratefully accepts. An idiot defies that person and makes up reasons to cling to what they think they already know instead of being willing to learn. Actually, this one of those things where you can’t always trust masters because it is very possible that they became one at a McDojo. > [@April\_R](#): > > Hahahaha, I needed the laugh this morning. Thanks. You’re welcome. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/138 "2013-02-04T14:52:24Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#): > > Yes I am. Not all 6th degree black belts know what they are blabbering about. They may have trained at a McDojo, which it looks like he did. > > I will get back to him in 8 to 9 hours. Right now, I don’t have the time to be typing a long reply. Son, I’ve probably been training in martial arts longer than you have been alive. I do know what I am talking about; that is why I am in training to become a master instructor. And one of the things I have learned over the years is that, even though I’m going to become a master, I am still a student and always will be, until the day I die. There is always something new to learn, or some way to improve something you already know. And I will suggest that to you: be a student. Stop trying to present yourself as an authority on something that you don’t know beans about, especially when your cites and quotes are from websites full of lies and hogwash. If you are a serious martial arts student, get back out on the floor and practice. And if you want to do some serious research on martial arts, please allow me to suggest a reading list for you. This is stuff you don’t skim, by the way. These books should be front and center in your library and you should read them repeatedly. The Art of War by Sun Tzu. The Book of Five Rings by Miyamoto Musashi. Living the Martial Way by Forrest E. Morgan. Mastery: The Keys to Success by George Leonard. Quotations for Martial Artists by John Moore. Zen in the Martial Arts by Joe Hyams. On Becoming A Leader by Warren G. Bennis. I’m seriously trying to help you here. If it seems like I have been dumping on you, my apologies - that was not my intention. Your basic problem is that you have read lies and innuendo and have accepted them as truth without questioning them. Now, there are some elements of truth in what you have said previously; for example, I’m certainly not arguing with you that bad business practices are exactly that. But you have stated some “absolutes” and “truths” that simply aren’t, and when others have pointed out that you are wrong, you have ignored them because your mind is closed. And son, if your mind is closed, you cannot learn anything new, and therefore have condemned yourself to failure as a martial artist. And at anything else that you approach with a closed mind - that is a hard fact of life. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/139 "2013-02-04T14:55:39Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#): > > I will get back to him in 8 to 9 hours. Right now, I don’t have the time to be typing a long reply. With your shitty posts and arrogant attitude, you don’t really need to return at all, you childish jackass. We all know you’re social retard, but it’s time to put on your big-boy pants and grow the hell up. That starts with not thinking the whole world revolves around your experiences, which you clearly have no idea of how to evaluate with the total lack of introspection in your life. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/140 "2013-02-04T14:59:05Z")
> [@Doughbag](#): > > if you need to and must defend yourself: use a handgun. BangBangDeathWands take extensive training and practice, too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070.md?page=8)